I was looking through a Reloading Manual today thinking about all the things we take into consideration when selecting a Powder to begin Load Development for a new cartridge. I realized we don’t all use the same selection process to pick that Powder.

This might be an interesting way to provide some insight for a lot of new Reloaders that have joined the Board recently.

Below is a list of MAX Loads shown in the Hodgdon’s 2004 Annual Manual for a 50gr bullet in a 223Rem. Obviously most of us would start Low and work up watching for Pressure Indicators, so that isn’t a consideration.

With that in mind, explain Which Powder you would start your Load Development with using the below information and Why did you select it?:

Varget.....27.5Cgr = 3383fps at 44,800CUP
BL-C2........28.0gr = 3428fps at 47,100CUP
H335.........26.0gr = 3393fps at 51,700CUP
H4895.......27.5Cgr = 3468fps at 51,300CUP
Benchmark..26.5gr = 3396fps at 50,400CUP
H322.........24.0gr = 3301fps at 49,300CUP
H4198........21.5gr = 3223fps at 45,900CUP
None of the above.
Some of the above.
A different Powder than is listed.

I'd start with either H-4895 or H-335. Hodgdon's techs were willing to work these powders to higher pressures than the others. That suggests to me that these two loads had the lowest shot-to-shot pressure variations. The 335 will meter nicely. The 4895 will probably burn a bit cleaner, is fairly temperature insensitive, and will give a slightly compressed load, which usually aids consistency. Be sure to stick with the primer used by Hodgdon in their tests. Not being a speed freak, I'd likely aim for a full case of H-4895, with a velocity on the chronograph several percent below that reported by Hodgdon.

I just started loading for an AR type rifle and I started with BLC(2) and H335. Because I had both of those powders on hand for other cartridges.

I'd probably start with either BLC2 or Varget, simply because (according to the numbers) they will give a higher velocity at lower pressures. High velocity and high pressure doesn't help barrel or brass life. As far clean burning goes, I don't really care one way or the other. And, another thing, BLC2 meters nicely.

i'd ask you how long is your barrel and then for bare starters use the faster powders for short barrels and the slower powders for the longer barrels. just me though.

b h

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
I was looking through a Reloading Manual today thinking about all the things we take into consideration when selecting a Powder to begin Load Development for a new cartridge.
Indicators, so that isn’t a consideration.

With that in mind, explain Which Powder you would start your Load Development with using the below information and Why did you select it?:

None of the above.
Some of the above.
A different Powder than is listed.

Varget.....27.5Cgr = 3383fps at 44,800CUP In .223 with lighter bullets (50 Gr.) and lighter I've never had my best accuracy or MV.

BL-C2........28.0gr = 3428fps at 47,100CUP I use WC 846 the surplus BL-c (2) equivalent. It's been one of my most accurate loads and I can meter it with no problems. first choice.

H335.........26.0gr = 3393fps at 51,700CUP Suppose to be "the" .223 powder it hasn't worked all that well for me in my .223's

H4895.......27.5Cgr = 3468fps at 51,300CUP Fair accuracy in .223 but nothing to rave about, this is my go to 22-250 powder and the most accurate in that caliber.

Benchmark..26.5gr = 3396fps at 50,400CUP Accuracy is very close to the WC-846 I use. MV slightly lower. Meters only fairly. second choice.

H322.........24.0gr = 3301fps at 49,300CUP Haven't been impressed with it. Shoots fairly good in my .222.

H4198........21.5gr = 3223fps at 45,900CUP
Haven't been impressed with it. Shoots fairly good in my .222.

Considering the basis of your question I would start with H4895. Nowhere in your post do you even consider accuracy, only velocity. I would start with H4895 to try and acheive your stated goal.

Actually, I found:

N-133 From 19.8 grains to 26.2 grains
Remington 7-1/2 Primer

to be to my liking...

You're right, some of us don't use that approach. For years I wouldn't buy that poorly designed .223. I broke down last year and bought a 12VBSs-s in .223.

The first powder I wanted to try out was 2230-C.
Why ?? Because it was reasonably priced and of a reasonable burning rate.

From there I tested acc73, acc2520, Blue Dot,Wcc846,Wcc844,acc2200, acc2015,acc4064,H380, and 2400.

I guess I really don't develope fine tuned loads as most serious shooters do ; I just kind of stumble over them. Stumble I did, over the Varmint Nite Mare bullet. 6 of 6 of the above mentioned powders turned in sub 1/2 MOA with 5 shots or more.

I hope I didn't go too far afield here. ???????? roger

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
Nowhere in your post do you even consider accuracy, only velocity.

Would be very difficult to consider accuracy of a "Starting load" . If the loading manual or the powder manufacturer's data has no "accuracy load" listed, all you can base your choice on is what is available. In this case it is velocity, pressure and powder type(ball or rat- turd). Yes? Yes.

quote:

(ball or rat- turd)

Rat turds are spherical...

It hasn't been an hour ago that I was sending a message to a fellow where I was "bragging" on all the knowledgeable Reloaders we are blessed with on this Board. Now I open this thread and see excellent responses to support my comments.

By the way, I also appreciate the "Humor" I see above and am glad you all included it. It put a BIG smile on my face.
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quote:

Originally posted by asdf:
I'd start with either H-4895 or H-335. Hodgdon's techs were willing to work these powders to higher pressures than the others. That suggests to me that these two loads had the lowest shot-to-shot pressure variations. ...

Hey asdf, An interesting observation on your part. Now you have my gray matter wondering about it too.

By the way, the SAAMI MAX is 52,000CUP.
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quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
...I started with BLC(2) and H335. Because I had both of those powders on hand ...

An EXCELLENT reason.
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quote:

Originally posted by craigster:
...I'd probably start with either BLC2 or Varget, simply because (according to the numbers) they will give a higher velocity at lower pressures. High velocity and high pressure doesn't help barrel or brass life....

That is exactly what I did when I first started Load Development for my 223Rem. And for the same exact reasons. (I started with BL-C2 before Varget came out.)
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quote:

Originally posted by bounty hunter:
...I'd ask you how long is your barreland then for bare starters use the faster powders for short barrels and the slower powders for the longer barrels. ...

Hey BH, The barrel used in that Manual was 24". The one on my 223Rem is 20".

Which would you begin with for each length?
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Hey Jay, Excellent input concerning all the Powders. When I look back at the Load Data for my 223Rem, I've tried all of those Powders too.

Do you happen to remember which one you started with and why?
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quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
...Nowhere in your post do you even consider accuracy, only velocity...

Hey 30378, The Hodgdon 2004 Annual Manual does not list the accuracy of their Loads.

In Manuals that do list the accuracy, have you found that to be an advantage for you?
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Hey Steve and Roger, I was hoping you all would jump in. That is why I included:
None of the above.
Some of the above.
A different Powder than is listed.

Steve, is that the First Powder you tried, or do you remember which one was First? I feel sure you have tried lots of Powders.

Roger, I'm not sure it is possible to Hijack a thread I start. I see the comments coming from everyone sitting around an old Warm Morning coal stove in a room that has lots of "old" and a few new Mounts on the walls and a bit of dirt on the floor. A comfortable place.

Your reason for picking your Powders being, "Because it was reasonably priced and of a reasonable burning rate.", seems like an answer a lot of the Beginners can relate to. Glad to see you got that "poorly designed .223" shooting well for you. And with nice inexpensive bullets too.

How would you prefer for the 223Rem case to be different?
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I don't think I can add a thing to the "Rat Observations" made by Steve and Steve. Amazing knowledge on this Board indeed.

I guess I should "Ask the Experts", does a particuler size Rat coorelate to a specific Ball Powder size?
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How `bout the rest of you? Which Powder to begin with and Why did you pick it?

Thats what i like about nosler#5 book,it lists accuracy loads.

My first choice would be Ramshot X-Terminator. It is clean burning and it's extremely small spherical shape meters great and won't bridge going into the small necks of the .22 cals. It has also performed very well for me in other calibers and I have plenty on hand.

It is not the fastest but if you want the accuracy go with the 50 grainers and VV-133 powder. Most 223 rifle just love it. Use it for accuracy. If you want higher velocity buy a 22-250.

Accuracy kills. Velocity impresses friends.

Let's say one can't get VV powders and don't want to pay the Hazardous fees to order some. Then which powder would you use. I'm going with Benchmark and RE10X. Jay

quote:

Originally posted by ricciardelli:


Rat turds are spherical...

Rat turd or gun powder? I can't tell.

h c

i have a #1 in .223 that i shoot a 55grn bullet and use 4198, i used of all things 3031 before that. never needed to go any further. in a 24" bbl i think that i would try the blc-2 and/or the 4895. the 4198 works exceptional for me.

b h

what I haver on hand,
1. Varget
2. H414
3. h380

quote:

Hey Jay, Excellent input concerning all the Powders. When I look back at the Load Data for my 223Rem, I've tried all of those Powders too.

Do you happen to remember which one you started with and why?

I had them they were used in my load development in my .222. They didn't pan out there as my best loads either. BLC-(2) WC-846 was very cheap that was my next move in .222 it shot the best until I discovered RL-7 which has been my .222 powder since.

Having those powders available it was logical to use the in my .223. The .223 a VSSF just has had a love affair with that BLC-(2). I tried the Benchmark an acquaintance Louie was using it with great success. I ran it over my chronograph and it was very near the BLC-(2). I go Prairie Dog hunting and the Benchmark just didn’t meter as well as the ball powder so loading a 1000 .223’s a year that made my decision. Both the BLC-(2) and the Benchmark will shoot sub .5 MOA groups with several bullets. WC 846 is getting hard to find but I going to be giving 2520 a look to see how it works another ball powder available as surplus. I may even revisit the H335 or WC 844. I didn't tinker with it for long as the results I got did look that promising.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
How would you prefer for the 223Rem case to be different?

Longer neck and a throating to go with it.

If that rifle were sold in .222 with a .223 twist that's what I would have bought. Sentiment?? Ya, I guess so. My negative predjudice against the .223 is ill founded. roger

Hey Roger, Sounds like an easy job for one of the Barrel Makers to make for your Stevens. Then you could have just what you want.

Those old 222Rems certainly held my respect for many years. Great old cartridge back then that took a lot of years for a "few" newer designs to better in accuracy.

I recently did work up some 50g loads in my 223. I tried h335, BL-C2, and Varget. Bl-c2 was most accurate for me.

Now, I'm looking for a load for 55g Varmint Nightmare. I'm starting with BL-C2 and wc846.
-Ball Powders-I like to shoot lots of 223, I don't like trickling powder. Ball Powders save time.

Also, BL-C2 has worked well for similar loads.
Cheap- especialy wc846, like I said, I like to shoot lots.

On Hand in quantity-I use or plan to use these powders in 30-06, 308, 7.5x55, 223, 222.

I use a lot of AA2230 in my match .223.I like Varget also as it goes in the 308 and 7-08 and shoot very accurately.BLC2 is my first choice when I can get it ,for the same reasons as VARGET and it meters better.

All the powders you mentioned are good for the 223 Rem. I have stong preference for Varget.