I was at the local range last Saturday, and had the misfortune to see my first reloading caused gun accident.

Went to the pistol range about mid morning to practice my handgun skills. There were two gentlemen who had about four or five handguns a piece that were practicing for a local pistol competition. Both were very experienced shooters, and have great safety records.

One gentleman decided to dig out his .45 ACP, complete with custom grips and all tricked out. He was shooting lead 230 grain round nose bullets, that had been chronyed at 730 FPS (pretty safe load). He loaded up a clip of five, and on the second one there was a louder POP!. Lead shrapnel peppered his face, and would have blinded him if he hadn't been wearing safety glasses.

The three remaining unfired cases showed that the bullet was pushed way back, almost to the powder. The gun was locked up and would not open, but both fired cases were found. Niether showed any signs of pressure. He was using a fresh target, and there were two clear holes.

After we all calmed down and looked at the unfired cases, it appears that the recoil from the first shot caused the remaining bullets to get forced deeper into the cases. It also appeared that they had not been completly resized, since a .45 doesn't recoil THAT much.

The gentleman in question has been reloading for over 30 years, and this was his first accident. I take this as a warning to always be sure to be consistant and very careful in this hobby of ours, and to always wear safety glasses! Luckly, no one was hurt. He had to pick some lead out of his nose and cheek, but that is it.

I've had folks here on AR say that reloading accidents only happen to idiots......and that may be true. But we're all idiots at one time or another and this post by NEJack deserves a good read. Wear the glasses for sure and be careful on the bench.

quote:

The gun was locked up and would not open, but both fired cases were found.

I'm having trouble making complete sense of your description. You seem to have accounted for all five of the fired cases/loaded rounds. Thus you are indicating that the gun ejected the case from the offending load, then "locked up", but without a round chambered.

You also indicate that the spent case from the offending round exhibited no excessive pressure. So what is it that caused "lead shrapnel" to be ejected toward the shooter's face? Do you mean that parts of the bullet somehow struck him in the face?

Let's try this again. I don't think the shooter was damaged by lead, and if the case showed now signs of excessive pressure, he apparently wasn't damaged by brass fragments. So was he hit with powder particals? Was the action locked on a live round, and if so, how was that determined?

I tend to agree with Stonecreek. There is something else going on here. I never crimp my 45 acp target loads. Something, presumably in the second round caused the other rounds to seat deeper, but, even then, the pressure increase with lead bullets should not be great enough to cause back splatter.
Peter.

quote:

I'm having trouble making complete sense of your description. You seem to have accounted for all five of the fired cases/loaded rounds. Thus you are indicating that the gun ejected the case from the offending load, then "locked up", but without a round chambered.

I thought it was only me that was confused.

To be honest, I am just as confused.

Pretty sure the "shrapnel" was lead, as we saw pieces of metal stuck in the safety glass. It appeared the greyish color of lead.

We also found two fired cases (US military cases) that came from the same year he was using. The other .45's at the line were not using military brass, and I think this was the first two shots taken with that box (not 100% sure).
But the slide was locked up. It would not move at all! We all tried to move it, and it would not budge.

I almost wonder if it was an out of battery firing, but I can't quite figure out how you can do that with a 1911! The big thing (for me) was that this was at least partially a reloading error, and a great example of why safety glasses are a must.

quote:

I almost wonder if it was an out of battery firing

If it were out of battery the case would show it I would think. Only he will know what locked ti after it is apart.

Safety glasses are a MUST!!!!!

The slide did not close all the way and the case bluged at the rim blowing powder out, I had same happen to me with a 30 carbine bolt did not close all the way powder in face and the action locked up tight had to beat it opened with a rubber mallet, mine was factory ammo the reason gun was dirty.

Could have been a high primer causing a out of battery firing. 'Could have been a stuck firing pin.

Increased seating depth raise's pressure a lot in pistol cases.

Lots of reasons to happen lots of reasons to wear safety glasses.

I've never been much for shooting 1911's, they wrack my knuckles so I just don't shoot them myself for that reason.

A couple months ago I bought a partial box of Hornady 230gr lead RN's from another member here. In loading I've yet to get the damned things to lock tight in the case. They all can be turned, or pushed/pulled up and down in the case. I've quit using them because of that.

I don't have any problems at all with hard cast by the thousands. I'd suspect maybe he experienced this problem with too soft of lead.

Glasses, you bet! Had a primer pierce in a hot load, hot from shooting gun on a 105 degree day in the busy p/dog field.

And didn't have glasses on! Unburnt powder stung my face and ruined a contact lense. Had three or four spots and two piece's of powder stuck on the soft lense. I learned that lesson!

Gunsmith said: "hot loads, hot guns, and leaving them in the hot chamber will blow them everyday in hot weather". That shell had been in the chamber about 15 minutes while we moved to another place across the pasture.

Safety/shooting glasses?? Wear 'em!!

George

You didn't say whether there was one hole in the target after the first round. I may be completely off base here, but is it possible the first round could have been a squib but still had enough pressure to eject the spent brass and the second round blew the stuck bullet out of the barrel? I saw this happen to my ex-brother inlaw with a 357 Mag. once. After the first shot the target was still clean and he figured he had missed, when he pulled the trigger the second time there was much louder POP and we found 2 holes in the target. Luckily they were light loads and no damage was done to the shooter, revolver, or bystanders.

I don't understand the part were "NEJACK" says

"The three remaining unfired cases showed that the bullet was pushed way back, almost to the powder."

In my experience, I've had the Slug and Case move while in the chamber due to heavy recoil of previously fired rounds (in a 44Mag). But the movement has always been apart, not the slug moving further inside the case.

The heavy slug stays put (in the same place) due to inertia, as the case moves suddenly back with the recoil.

Is this different in an Auto as compared to a Revolver? I think not, but what is an explaination for this comment and condition?

Heck Bigdog2, I don't know, but your right on the effect on revolvers, but the case there is held back.
On an auto, in the magazine, the gun would recoil back, the heavy projectile may hit the front of the mag. draging the case along to and the more sudden stop when the bullet hits the front of the mag. MAY allow a loose crimp to then have the case move up on the projectile.

I know in my young and wild days I had auto loads with the bullet flopping around inside the case, but I can't remember just how I managed it.

quote:

Originally posted by Bigdog2:
I don't understand the part were "NEJACK" says

"The three remaining unfired cases showed that the bullet was pushed way back, almost to the powder."

In my experience, I've had the Slug and Case move while in the chamber due to heavy recoil of previously fired rounds (in a 44Mag). But the movement has always been apart, not the slug moving further inside the case.

The heavy slug stays put (in the same place) due to inertia, as the case moves suddenly back with the recoil.

Is this different in an Auto as compared to a Revolver? I think not, but what is an explaination for this comment and condition?

JAL hinted at what I suspect happened.

There were two holes in the target (fresh target) so one was not a squib. Although that was my first thought also.

I will be working weekends the rest of the month, so it may be a while till I see the gentlemen again. Haven't heard anything else, but it did drive home two things. Always wear your saftey glasses, and always be careful in your load procedure.

Always wear those shooting glasses!!! Learned that lesson many many years ago while shooting for the Navy. Was in a match in the rain (On the rifle range it never rains) firing sitting rapid fire when my right eye went blank. Being a gung ho neophyte, I thought I'd gotten a gob of oil in the blow by, ripped off my glasses and finished the string. Then looked down at my shattered glasses. The coach told me he would have stopped firing. In the post-mortum we found that the M-1 had blown the extractor which hit my glasses, but the old M-1 gun kept on firing. Lesson, Always wear your shooting glasses, stop shooting when something seems wrong, and that old M-1 is a helluva gun.
LLS

I noticed you mentioned that military brass was used. In the past when reloading 45 acp in military brass I ran across a problem with 230 grain fmj bullets not being held tightly in the case. It turned out, after much examination, that the problem was only with TZZ brass, of various years of manufacture. It seems that TZZ brass is slightly thinner in the neck wall, and does not hold the projectile tightly.

I had an undersize die made (.001 undersize) and that cured my problem. I had to separate the TZZ from the rest of the brass, because the undersize die would size "normal" brass too small to allow bullet seating even with normal belling.

Bullet grip is a good thing !

In a 1911 the rounds contact with the feedramp is pretty violent .

Be sure your bullets are not loose !

Glad there were no serious injuries !


Travis F.