I've got a new savage 10fp in 223 that is really giving me fits. I've never had this much trouble finding a load a rifle likes. The rifle is stock with a new buckmaster 6x18 in burris sig zee rings. Everything is tight including action bolts, barrel is totally free floated. The barrel is broken in and about 200 rounds so far and cleans up well.

It's not shooting terrible, but shoots nothing up to par in my opinion. Groups range from 1.5 to 1 in. I've shot a few groups in the .6s but not consistently. The groups really don't form a pattern of horizontal or vertical grouping, more all over the place. The weird thing is that it shoots small clusters with a few shots touching but end up turning into a 1 inch plus group if I measure the clusters all together. I thought it might be the shooter, but I can put the 223 aside and pick up my 22/250 and shoot little bugholes.


Here's what I've tried so far.

Hornady 75gr HPBT match
I'v tried H4895 from 22gr to 24.5gr with varying COL from 2.275 to 2.3 with winchester smr primers.

Hornady 68gr HPBT match
H4895 from 23gr to 25gr with COL of 2.3 with smr primers.

Hornady 50gr Vmax
H4895 from 23 to 26.5gr with COL of 2.75 and 2.3, smr primers.

I'm open to any suggestions. Powder, bullets, tricks, etc. Like I said, I've never had so much trouble finding a load I feel comfortable with. Guess I've been lucky until now.

Try a different powder....BL(C)-2 or Varget.

H-335 has also worked well for me.

Examine the crown under a loupe of at least 10x, and if that checks out, take the scope off and remove the base & rings. Even a minute amount of play can become apparent when striving for tight groups. Lastly, try another scope, though I'd be suprised if the BuckMasters was at fault.

Forgot to mention: In the .223 and a number of .223-based wildcats, I've poured more H335 than all other powders combined. It's one of the best propellants for this cartridge.

Sounds to me like your gun might not like 4895. The first thing I'd try is what the other posters have said, some H335. I also like some other powders too, but H335 is a good place to start especially with lighter bullets. Try Varget with the heavy ones, but I don't think your savage has a twist for heavy bullets. You might also try some 52 to 55gr bullets both flatbase and boattail................DJ

H335 with a 52 Sierra match bullet.

Try 55 gr. Sierra GameKing with 26.5 grs. Varget in a Winchester case with CCI BR4 primers. Will deliver 3250 fps. from a 26" barrel and shoot .5 or slightly less out of my Stealth. Savages are s'posed to be pretty accurate.

I have not tried any of the bullets you used, but here are some that worked well in my Savage 12fv

69g sierra match king and Varget
52g Hornady bthp match and BL-C2
50g TNT and BL-C2

One I tried today thats very promising
55g Midsouth Varmint Nightmare and wc846

h4895 did not work well in the few combinations I tried.

The savage has a 1/9 twist so it should stablize the 68's and probably the 75's. I guess I'll order some Varget and H335.

I double-checked the scope, everything is tight. If all else fails, I'll try another scope but I don't think that's the problem. I've had scopes go bad before and groups really opened-up and shifted POI, not the case here. The stock also has double swivel studs and I plan on removing them to make sure it's not catching on the bags.

Until just recently I just had slow twist .223's. My best loads came with 50 Gr bullets and WW brass with Federal 205 primers. Of the powders I've used 4895 has been a bust in my .223. Where it has been my go to powder in my 22-250. BLC-2, RL-7 and 2015 have all been pretty consistant producing my best groups. The bullets I've had the best success with 50 V-Max, 50 Blitzking and 50 TNT. I set them pretty close to the lans.

Is the H335 very temp sensitive? I've read about ball powders being temp sensitive. Temps vary a lot here in the south, high 60's today, low 30's in two days. I shoot all year round and really don't want to change loads depending on temp.

Try the 55gr Nosler BT and 28gr of H380.

With the 50 Vmax, try Benchmark, around 25.5grs. Jay

I think dinking around with the powder types and weights will only slightly gain what you are looking for, instead I would try different types of bullets first, I have had good luck with 55grn vmax and blitz kings, also for the hell of it see what a box of winchester white box will do in the gun or maybe some black hills with the 50 grain vamx, I have never seen a 223 that would not shoot white box into MOA or less

Justin-I live in south central TX, where the temperatures can take drastic swings: freezing at daybreak and 80 in the afternoon. Then there are the summers with scorching heat and high humidity. And yet I've experienced no problems with H335 in that regard.

My Savage 12Fv loves 60 gr VMAX over a charge of 23.3 AA2460. 55 gr bullets (Hornady and Nosler) worked good, but the 60 gr VMAX is what it liked the best.

I haven't had much luck with 4895 in a .223. Some swear by it, but it hasn't worked for me. My .308 loves it however.

My new Savage 112, 223R likes H335 and 55gr VMAX..I tried Varget and several other bullet wt and styles,,I can keep them touching with this loading.

Guess I'll try some different powder first. I'm not real concerned with the vmax load right now. The only time it'll be needed is for a possible pdog shoot. The rifle's main diet will be heavy match bullets for plinking.

A load that works in all my .223s is about 27.0g/Win 748/ 52g Sierra BTHP(CHECK THE RELOADING MANUAL AS I AM POSTING THIS FROM MEMORY) I subsitute a 50g Speer TNT as a varminting bullet and it is almost as accurate-sub .5 in a good rifle.

I use a RCBS Lil Dandy measure with 2 rotors of 748 for this .223 load. Loading is real fast but you have to pay attention and visually check powder before seating bullets as I do anyway with any load. Plateau Hunter

Reloader #7, 748, 322 or 335 all work well in mine. Never had any success with 4895 in a case that small. Jim

Reloader 7 will get the velocities and accruacies up there to meet most expectations. IMHO

After you've tried all the others try a 63 gr Sierra SMP, with 26 gr of either Win 748 or Varget, and CCI 450 magnum primer.

I have seen these loads work outrageously good in several 223's.

Best of luck.

Thanks for all the input. There are not very many local places to get powder, really on 3 in about a 50 mile radius. I did manage to find some H335 and Varget to try, but that was it. No NN, Win, Benchmark, BL-C2, or Reloader 15 anywhere to be found. I'll roll some together and post a range report when I finally get the chance to go.

quote:

Originally posted by Justin B:
Is the H335 very temp sensitive? I've read about ball powders being temp sensitive. Temps vary a lot here in the south, high 60's today, low 30's in two days. I shoot all year round and really don't want to change loads depending on temp.

I've had problems with H335 being temp sensitive

With cold temps I get vertical stringing as the rifle and ammunition comes up to temp.

The load I've had trouble with in the cold grouped best in summer temps, but is a real PITA in the cold. 26.0grs of H335 behind a 55gr boattail lit up with a CCI-450(Sm Rifle MAg) primer.

the load that I've never had trouble with is 21.0gr of RL7 behind a 55gr Hornady SPBT lit up with a CCI BR-4.

I'm still working up my loads with Benchmark
and a nosler 50gr Ballistic tip.

supposedly Benchmark is one of the most consistant propellants in varying temps (if you believe Hodgdon's ad hype)... we'll see...
But Benchmark is an extruded powder, so I don't think it'll suffer from the same issues.

AllanD

I've had my best group with 21.5grs. RE7 with a 55VMAX @401"(5). 24.5grs. Benchmark has worked well at 300yds. with 52-53MKs getting a bit over 2". Going over my test targets tells me the avg. runs around 3/4MOA for my VS.

The 53MK load has taken a Pronghorn at 376yds. through the top of the heart, through and through. Jay

My Savage likes H-335 and W-748 powders, but I usually shoot 40-55 gr bullets. Sierra 69 gr HP match bullets shot well, though.

Allan DeGroot wrote:

quote:

I've had problems with H335 being temp sensitive

With cold temps I get vertical stringing as the rifle and ammunition comes up to temp.

Allan-That is not a POWDER problem. It sounds more like an issue with inconsistencies in the bedding of the firearm. Without getting too detailed, metal, wood and other products contract and expand with temperature fluctuations, changing both pressure and harmonics which are so critical to consistent accuracy. It sounds like that may be the basis of your problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Allan DeGroot wrote:

quote:

I've had problems with H335 being temp sensitive

With cold temps I get vertical stringing as the rifle and ammunition comes up to temp.

Allan-That is not a POWDER problem. It sounds more like an issue with inconsistencies in the bedding of the firearm. Without getting too detailed, metal, wood and other products contract and expand with temperature fluctuations, changing both pressure and harmonics which are so critical to consistent accuracy. It sounds like that may be the basis of your problem.

I always blamed vertical stringing on shooting with or into the wind, shooting at 200yds. last year was getting 4-5" strings with 24.5grs. Benchmark and 53MKs and Vmaxs with 10 shot groups. H-S stock is fully bedded, floated, but you shoot into the wind, string city. 5mph wind left to right, sub moa groups @300yds. Jay

quote:

Originally posted by Justin B:
I've got a new savage 10fp in 223 that is really giving me fits. I've never had this much trouble finding a load a rifle likes. I'm open to any suggestions. Powder, bullets, tricks, etc. Like I said, I've never had so much trouble finding a load I feel comfortable with. Guess I've been lucky until now.

Justin:
My 10FP shoots .5 moa w/25.6 gr H335 behind a 55 gr. Nos. Bal. Tip in WW cases and CCI SR primers. This load produces 3300 fps out of my rifle. Haven't felt the need to experiment further, but one of these days...............

Another plus is the first shot out of a clean barrel is usually within 1/4" of those from fouled barrel.

Good luck!

Regards,
hm

24-25 Grs. of 3031 and 55gr. HP Sierra's.

Rich

in a cz-527

If you get a chance, you could try some Accurate 2015BR with 50 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips and CCI BR-4 primers. Back when I had a Savage in .223, that was my load of choice. Of course, my Savage had a 1 in 12" twist barrel, so yours might prefer the 55 gr bullet instead. I never had much luck with either 4895 in my .223. It liked the Accurate powders better, 2460, 2230 and 2015BR best of all. Let us know how it goes.