I'm planning on taking my short mag to Africa later this year. I've been shooting 61 grains of H4350 with 200-grain Grand Slams (I like low BC bullets in the Short Mag.-- especially with something this heavy). Getting pretty good groups, but this load only gives me about 2720 fps. It is one grain from the book max, but the max produces a sticky bolt. I'd like to get closer to 2800 fps, but even the 61-grain load occasionally gets sticky.

Alliant doesn't even list a load with a 200 grain bullet.

Hodgdon recommends 4831 in addition to 4350, but I'm afraid that this slow burning powder takes up too much space to seat the 200 grainer.

Anybody worked up a load in the 300 WSM with a 200-grain bullet?

At the risk of being an asshole and not answering your question...

Why?

If you want a little more speed, a 180gr premium in the 300WSM (I have one but just recieved dies for it yesterday and I haven't done any loading for it yet) will do what you need to do.

Sorry about that, I hate it when I ask a question and I get a million suggestions but none that adress what I want, but I think it's a valid response.

The Sierra #5 and Nosler #5 both show Re 19 to get the 200 gr up to 2900 fps. Nolser gets a lot more than 61 grs of Rl 22 into the case to go over 2900.

The various 4831's do well also.

RL-25 From 66.5 grains to 71.5 grains
Winchester WLR Primer

Is 80 fps going to make a difference???

I haven't decided on which .300 (I've got a Win Mag and a WSM) I'm going to take to Africa this July as a second rifle. But the one I'll take will be spitting 180 slugs. I have a beautiful load for the Win Mag with a 180 Partition that chugs along at 3100 fps. I haven't had a chance to play much with the WSM so if I take it I'll have to buy factory ammo.

I worked up to 62.5 IMR4350 200gr Nosler Partitions with no visible pressure signs. They are going 2800fps and group around 2" at 200yds out of my A Bolt. I noticed that you can get the same velocities and lower pressure with Magpro.

Gatehouse, fair question.

I'll tell you why I'm wanting to use 200 grain Grand Slams in this gun. The rifle is a custom gun made for me by my cousin in his shop. It has a McMillan stock with a removable magazine. Big mistake! Even though there is very little free-bore, the ONLY bullet that that you can load out to the lands AND get it to fit in the magazine is the Speer Grand Slam, which shoot very, very well. Other "premium" bullets just don't shoot good, I assume because they are loaded too far off the lands.

Now, I've shot three elk with the 180 grain Grand Slam and recovered all three. There were no exit wounds, even though the animals were shot behind the shoulder. One recovered bullet was lodged against the rib cage on the opposite side. Remember, this is without encountering shoulder bone upon entrance. The bullet simply is not a deep penetrator.

On African game, the odds of hitting the shoulder bone upon entrance is very high, since the heart on most African antelope lies forward of its location on most American game.

The solution? Think like the old-timers did before the introduction of "super bullets" -- go heavy for caliber! The OAL with the 200 grain Grand Slam is the same as the 180, so it fits nicely in my magazine.

Besides, We (my teenage sons are also going on the trip) have a "regular" .300 Win Mag. that we are taking with us that is zeroed with 180-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. It will be interesting to see how the two bullets "stack up" against each other on the same game.

That's your answer.

DickPal,

IMR4350 and H4350 are almost the same powder. This leads me to fear that your load will be too hot for my rifle. With 62 grains of H4350, my bolt just did not want to open. This kind of scares me. That's why I was hoping that a slower burning powder would get me where I want to go. I've loaded a progression of rounds with H4831SC using from 63 to 66 grains (book Max is 66.5 grains.) I'll take it to the range one day this week. According to the book, the 66 grain load will put me right at 2800 fps, which is where I want to be.

I wanted to try MagPro, but the recipes stopped at 180 grain bullets. I guess they think there would be too much compression with 200-grainers.

Wish me luck!

[ 04-20-2003, 17:36: Message edited by: GAHUNTER ]

Yesterday I tested loads in my 300WSM using N560 in Winchester brass with Federal 210M primers and the Sierra 200 gr. MatchKing. I found a load that showed real promise at 68.6 grain. The load developed 2879 fps with an exteme spread of 11 fps. and shot .381" for five shots. No visible sign of excessive pressure. At the listed max of 68.9 gr. of N560 it clocked 2901 avg. and shot .513" for five shots extreme was 23 fps. This rifle is a coustom rifle that was built for 600 and 1000 yd. F class matches. I do not use magnum primers in my loads. The Federal 210M works best for me. Like I said this was with 200 gr. Sierra MatchKing. Start 2 grains lower and work up to it with other bullets.

Shoot Safe, Shoot Straight.....RiverRat

GAHUNTER I read some propaganda on the Barnes site about the great penatration of the Xs over the partitions. I worked up a load with the 165 XBTs and they shoot very well for me. My A Bolt also will only allow 2.83 COAL to ctcle shells and that is well away from the lands. I have posted about that on other sites and have gotten some interesting info that seems to deminnish the need to be real close to the lands. All 4 of the different bullets I have loaded seem to agree. Also Barnes suggests that you stay back a bit. Also I had a 200gr Partition at 2800fps just miss the front shoulder and end up in the oposite rump roast of only a 177# whitetail. He tipped and the bullet looks just like Nosler says it should but I am a little disapoited it did not exit, thus the 165XBT load. I know I have seen lots of data on the 200s also. Have you checked out shotmags.org or steves or accuratearms about Magpro.

DickPal, (I'm afraid to ask how you got this handle )

I've tried both 180-grain Partitions and A-Frames in the gun and neither comes close to the accuracy of the Grand Slams. That's not to say they shot real bad. The Grand Slams shoot about a 3/4 inch group while the others shoot about twice that. Even the 200 grainers shoot under an inch.

All I can figure is it's the fact that they are well off the lands. If I really was dedicated, though, I'd load some of them out to the lands and shoot them single shot to see. But I'm not that curious.

Besides, if the 4831 loads work, then my problem is solved. I have no doubt that a 200-grain conventional "cup style" bullet (which the Grand Slam really is) will perform well on even the largest antelope (eland) at 2800 fps.

[ 04-20-2003, 21:07: Message edited by: GAHUNTER ]

I never thought of the handle thing till now. I may try to have it changed. My first name is Dick and my last starts with Pal and pal is the first part of my e-mail. I am going to see if I can have it changed, THANKS I THINK!

GAHUNTER,
You say the grand slams shoot about 3/4 MOA and the noslers and others twice that ,1.5MOA? There is nothing you can't kill with a 1.5MOA rifle, but I suppose you know that. A lot of the "premium" bullets don't have the potential accuracy of a conventional cup style bullet, they're just more complicated to make as consistent. Consider trying the Northforks maybe? Or relax, have fun and bag a bunch of game with a 1.5 MOA load. For what it's worth, on the lands is not the holy grail of accuarcy potential, Matchkings seem to like a jump of 10 thous in my target rifle and shoot great jumping further as well.

[ 04-22-2003, 02:37: Message edited by: KevinNY ]

Kevin,

You, of course, are absolutely right. In fact, there was a time when I would have thought 1 1/2 MOA to be next to the Holy Grail. It's just when I started shooting customized rifles and hand loads that I found out the true potential of my rifles.

That said, I have my own reasons for wanting to use the Grand Slams. Among them is the fact that this rifle is just as likely to be shooting a 30-pound Steenbok as a 2,000-pound Eland. I feel like the cup-style bullet has an advantage on the smaller stuff, while the weight of the bullet will cause it to hold together on the larger animals. And , like I said, we already have a .300 Win Mag shooting 180-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claws.

Variety is the spice of life! (Yeah, but just try using that one on your wife sometime. )

I load H4350 with 210 JLK's and WLR primers in my 1000 yard Bench Guns.

The latest Nosler data for the 300 WSM with a 200gr bullet shows W760 and IMR4350 as the powders of choice.

W760.....max of 62.5 gr @ 2853 fps at 91% load density.

IMR 4350..same max amout @ 2870 fps also at 91" load density.

Does not show either load as compressed.

You should also know that increasing velocity will not increase penetration...probably just the opposite as it will initiate more expansion thus limiting penetration.....if want more penetration, back off on the speed.

[ 04-22-2003, 23:30: Message edited by: DB Bill ]

I took my .300 WSM M70 to Africa two years ago and had a great time with 200 gr Sierra SBTs loaded over H4350. Killed Mountain Reedbuck through Blue Wildebeest with no problems.

My rifle will take 63.5 gr of H4350 with A STANDARD PRIMER (WLR)- not a magnum primer - with that bullet for 2870 fps and no pressure problems. Using the mag primer in the .300 WSM is unecessary, given the length of the case and the amount of powder you are burning. All the mag primer does is raise pressures by 3000 CUP and up, with no increase in velocity or uniformity.

I've also found that in other cartridges (.308 Win, 7mm Rem Mag) the Grand Slam bullet tops out pressure-wise at lighter-than-usual powder charges, as compared to conventional bullets. The Sierra 200 SBT retained 66% of its weight on a quartering shot on wildebeest and penetrated 22". Animal died so where's the problem?

Here's a link to an article:

www.rifleshooter.com

[ 04-24-2003, 22:26: Message edited by: KuduKing ]

Consider giving up on the lead core design and going to a mono. If I were going to the Dark Cont. with my 300WSM I would load the Barnes 168XLC to about 3150fps with Rl-19 or H4350 and not look back......
Good Luck