Just got me a 7mm08 and looking thru all my manuals, I am not sure which direction to take. Maybe have to try them all.

Sierra 4 shows max loads for 140gr gameking at 44.9gr Varget. Nosler says something like 42.2gr but gets great velocity with IMR 4350, and hodgdon says around 42.2gr with Sft SP. Speer shows same.

You know I just called Hodgdon and they said Sierra does not do any pressure data on thier loads? He said that is probably the reason for thier hot data for this caliber and also they tested with a A-frame which probably will build pressure quicker. than a 140gr gameking. I am shocked, how can anyone put out a manual with no pressure data?

Different bullets, different pressure. I quit at 42.5 gr Varget in my present 7-08 and get great accuracy with 139 gr Hornady SPs or Nosler BTs. Velocity is 2700+ fps from a 24" bbl, more then enough to drop deer at the ranges I hunt. I like IMR4350 with the Nosler BT but I don`t seem to get the velocity they reported. Accuracy is top notch though, sub MOA in more then one rifle I`ve used it in.

R19 and the 145 gr Speer SP makes a good load in the little I`ve played with it also. The charge is a bit compressed but it seems to shoot well. I haven`t tried it on game yet so I can`t tell you how it does there.

R-15 (about 43gr) and IMR4350 (about 48grs) with 120 BT's is great for me.
IMR4350 (about 46grs) is great with 150 Rem Corelocts.
All these are about .5-.75 moa at 100yds in my 700.
Sorry I haven't broke out the chrono yet. Should've but been really time limited.
Dave

if u want to make that 708 sing..try the 120tsx with either varget or H-4895. If a 140 is the weight you want to use...NAB is the way to go.

for my 7-08 and my .260 rem. I now shoot RL-15. I was shooting VARGET. Now i get more volcity and better accurace. I load 44 gr. with 140 sierra B.T. CCI 200 or 250. with 24 in. barriel. at 2944 FPS. with rem. 700. less than 1 in. groups.

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
You know I just called Hodgdon and they said Sierra does not do any pressure data on thier loads? He said that is probably the reason for thier hot data for this caliber ...

Hey bigcountry, I would suspect the Hodgdon guy either did not get his thoughts across clearly, or simply is unaware of how "some" of the Sierra bullets work in 7mm.

First off, Sierra most definitely does check for Pressure prior to publishing their Loads. But, the last time I looked in one of their Manuals they did not include what that Pressure actually is. Perhaps that is what he was trying to relate.

Concerning the "Hot for Caliber", I had to smile when I read that. Back a few years ago a good buddy of mine in Pennsylvania got a 7mmRemMag and wanted to develop some Ground Hog loads for it. We had emailed back and forth about his new rifle and he had asked if I'd ever used 120gr bullets in mine. Told him I'd used them in my 7mm-08, but not in my 7mmRemMag, so I had nothing to offer.

A few days pass and I get an email from him with a load for a 120gr bullet that he was intending to try. Since we'd been emailing about the Loads, I had looked at the 7mmRemMag and realized that Load was way beyond what he should be using. So, I stopped what I was doing and called him to see what was going on. He had picked that specific Load as MAX from his latest Sierra Manual, but was planning to work up toward it.

Come to find out, that Load did fine with that specific Sierra bullet but was way too hot for other brands that he tried. So, obviously Sierra knew what they were talking about.

Apparently there is something about the design of that specific bullet that just creates less Pressure or Drag as it is being fired. That allows it to SAFELY be loaded Hotter than we would other bullets. Sierra is not the only bullet manufacturer to have "specific" bullets like this, Hornady has quite a few that allow Hotter loads than other bullets.

Only problem I see with them is if a Beginner selects one and sees no Pressure Indicators during the load development. Then he "thinks" just because there were no Pressure Indicators, he can just swap bullets and not need to re-develop the Load from below. Sometimes it would work, but sometimes he will be in way beyond the pressures where he should be "if" he just swaps the bullet without working up to it.
---

My specific 7mm-08 shoots 120gr-150gr bullets extremely well with H414.

Hotcore, wrong, give em a call. Find out for yourself. Just talked to Dave Brown at Sierra.

Hodgdon was right. They don't use SAAMI spec pressure barrels. They use regular ole guns. And examine primers, and extractor marks and bolt lift. Just called them.

Thats the reason edition 5 Sierra manual says 43gr max Varget with 140gr 7mm gameking for 7mm08 and edtion 4 says 44.6gr.

Thats a huge variation. But I see the pros and cons.

Pros: True no gun shoots alike and all load data is just guidelines of what one guy saw in one gun. So Sierra may be one to something.

Cons:A pressure barrel are usually much more consistent and may build pressure quicker than a regular old hammer forged barrel from remington. I said maybe, cause so many variations to affect this from thoat dimensions to copper build up. So load data got from a pressure barrel seems conservative and if you follow it, you should be safe any any gun. I said should.

Reading pressure is an art, not an exact science. for instance before you see flattening primers on a CCI primer, you might see a pin hole on it, and be in very high pressures. But a federal will flatten out at middle loads.

quote:

Sierra 4 shows max loads for 140gr gameking at 44.9gr Varget. Nosler says something like 42.2gr but gets great velocity with IMR 4350, and hodgdon says around 42.2gr with Sft SP. Speer shows same.

Bigcountry, the pressure changes with every manual because of the various components being used. Speer uses CCI primers, Hornady if I remember right uses the Remington 9 1/2 and Sierra likes the Fed 210M in the 7-08. Then too there is a difference in pressure caused by the different bullets construction and material used.

Hodgdon I`ve been told uses a lot of powder that falls in the middle of their burn range tolerance for that specific powder. The powder the other companies use to develope their data can be either faster or slower then Hodgdons and still be in spec but give different results, this is one of the reasons it`s so important to work up your loads.

By the way. The newest Sierra book (#5) lists the 140 GameKing with 43.0 gr of Varget as max, a little less the the 44.9 max in the old book. It pays to keep up with changes in data as it is likely due to a change in one of the components.

My dad back in the late `70s pierced a primer and bent the crane in a M19 S&W 357 locking it up tight, with a load of 15.8 gr H110 and a CCI primer. This is the starting load in the #10 Speer manual which had 17.8 gr listed as max. The #11 Speer book shows a starting load of 13.9 gr and a max of 15.5gr for the same components. The #13 lists the same lighter loads as the #11 for this powder. His 15.8 gr "book" starting load was .3gr over the max load in the newer book. Wonder why the load was hot? We both learned a very important lesson that day, reinforcing the need to work up.

Your best bet is to always use the latest data form the company making the bullet you want to use and if they don`t list the powder you want be sure to start at the bottom of the data found for that wgt bullet and powder combo and work up.

ol, I disagree alot with your statments. Especially use current data statement. Thats definately not always true. Read my reply before this one. I already talked to Sierra. Reason data is different was different guns.

quote:

Read my reply before this one. I already talked to Sierra. Reason data is different was different guns

Changing the test bed is a component change in my book.
Really makes little difference. Sierra saw a large enough change in the results to warrent changing their recommendation in their new manual. I would guess if you asked which load they believed today they will swear by the new lower one. The fact other manufactures data follows Sierras new listing real close helps reinforce my belief in this.
The choice of what data to use, new or old, is up to each individual. The fact I was with my dad and saw first hand a totally locked up, loaded revolver get carried in to the smiths for repair as the result of trusting "old data" is enough for. BTW it was the 1st or 2nd round fired that locked the gun, not a steady diet.

quote:

Changing the test bed is a component change in my book.
Really makes little difference. Sierra saw a large enough change in the results to warrent changing their recommendation in their new manual. I would guess if you asked which load they believed today they will swear by the new lower one. The fact other manufactures data follows Sierras new listing real close helps reinforce my belief in this.
The choice of what data to use, new or old, is up to each individual. The fact I was with my dad and saw first hand a totally locked up, loaded revolver get carried in to the smiths for repair as the result of trusting "old data" is enough for. BTW it was the 1st or 2nd round fired that locked the gun, not a steady diet.

I would say they would recommend the newer one too but not cause everything is newer and more improved thats for sure. They are wanting to sell products. Don't blame them. I am not clarvoyant enough to know what they are thinking myself. By the way, some loads have gotten hotter. Give them a call, do some research.

I just wanted to inform people of thier techniques. And let them decide for themselves.

Bigcountry I really don`t think we are that far apart with our thinking. I agree whole heartedly with you on that not everything is due to changes in product, and some loads have went up in charge.
I also think as you obviously do that contacting the manufacture with questions on discrepancies in THEIR data is a wise move. When one sees a big change it`s prudent to find out why if possible.
BTW, I found it interesting Sierra still uses the old case measurment system to develope loads I was under the impression they had joined others and switched to piezo.

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
Hotcore, wrong, give em a call. Find out for yourself. Just talked to Dave Brown at Sierra....

Hey Bigcountry, I'll take your word for it. I've not talked to them since they moved from Califoney and thought they brought all that Pressure Equipment with them. Or I could have that all goofed up too.

I do know the part about their 120gr 7mm in the 7mmRemMag worked for that buddy I mentioned.
---

By the way, there is a thread on Big Game about where to go Bear Hunting that you might want to check out. One of the guys responding is from Eastern NC and could "probably" fix you up with that Hog Hunt you were looking for a year or so ago.

Sure didn't mean to mislead you about Sierra. I sure thought they had the Pressure Equipment in Califoney and figured they moved it with them. Maybe they never had it to start with.

Hot Core, don't mention hog hunt. Bad subject. We went to Tennessee and was a one horrible experience. With these bunch of outlaws named TN Extreme. That wasn't hunting, not sure what it was.

No prob, Hot Core, didn't mean to come off crappy. I see thier point, but for me, a big time company like Sierra, should have some pressure data, CUP data or something along with shooting it out of real life guns.

They said, why should they, when Hodgdon has alot of pressure data. I couldn't believe the tech said that. He was online looking at Hodgdons data. Thats sad.

quote:

Originally posted by bigcountry:
No prob, Hot Core, didn't mean to come off crappy. I see thier point, but for me, a big time company like Sierra, should have some pressure data, CUP data or something along with shooting it out of real life guns.

They said, why should they, when Hodgdon has alot of pressure data. I couldn't believe the tech said that. He was online looking at Hodgdons data. Thats sad.

Hey Bigcountry, Some folks claim you never get to know people across the net, but I believe that is wrong. I did not take any offense at your post, but could see where you could have been perterbed by my wrong info. Having communicated with you before, I understood and hope you do as well.

That sure is strange about Sierra not having any actual Pressure Testing Equipment today. His curt comment about just using the Hodgdon data implies that there is no need at all to waste money buying the Sierra Manual. Interesting way to run a business.

Didn't realize you had gone on the TN hunt. I guess it is always Buyer Beware whatever we get into. Darn shame, cause there are some whopper Hogs in the Smokies that still show signs of the old Russians(or Russhoons as is said there). A guy I was in the CORPS with used to work at the Nantahala Outdoor Center. I visited him a long time ago and some guys that looked like they stepped out of the movie "Deliverance" came in to warm up and get some coffee.

I could hear the dogs in their truck and asked about them. They said they were Bear hunting that morning and ran up on a Hog that killed one of their HIGH Dollar Walkers and it ended up tearing up 3-4 others before they could get to where they were. So, there are some BIG serious Hogs there.

Bigcountry,

Not sure that you mentioned it, but what is your intended use for your 7-08?

Deke.

Whitetail. Wasn't really asking questions so much as making an observation.

HotCore, I ended up on a game farm. They said it was a fenced in 300 acres. But I know land, and know it was more like 50 or less. Second, they didn't even call us by name. It was, "hey, bow guy, get up here", and "hey, where's that rifle guy". And it wasn't what I expected. All they wanted was for us to get our hogs and get off the land. My brother is pretty out of shape, and they pushed him hard. Until the point I went up to the owner, Matt, cause he said, "boys do you all want your hogs or not". And I went up to him, and said quietly, "if you want to have to bring an ambulance back here and be liable for it, then go ahead and keep pushing my brother". I told him, "isn't this a 2 day hunt and it was like 12PM on the first day.

I will never do a hunt like that again. that wasn't hunting.

Anyway, thanks for the comments on the 7mm-08.

bigcountry,

I prefer 139sst's since they are relatively inexpensive and I believe interlock ring penetrates better than other nonbonded plastic tips. In a conventional bullet (not mono which I think is overkill for deer), the 140's are about perfect. I have found the 7-08 easy to make accurate, so I would choose to go for velocity 1st then work on accuracy afterwards, IMO RL15/IMR4064/H414 would all be "must try" powders w/lots of options after these. In my 22"Rem700ADL, using 139sst/FedGM210Match/R-Pbrass, I get safe max with 43.5grRL15@2911fps and 49.4grH414@2902fps, my silhouette competition load (same components) is 41.1grIMR4064@2742fps which shoots 1.5" groups or better @ 200m and depending on wind I will shoot it out to 385m (if gusty might change to 168MK's @ 385m, 139's too light for Rams @ 500m). Of course, always start 10% lower and work up.

Deke.

I appreciate the post Deke, but killed way too many deer with gamekings to change. And very cheap too. I won't buy hornady products myself. Worst customer service I ever seen.

Hey Bigcountry, That is indeed a pitiful story. Obviously only interested in getting your dollars and moving on to the next person.

I've never understood how people in a business like this don't go way out of their way to make sure the Hunters go home with a good experience whether they manage to kill anything or not. Word of mouth advertising among Hunters is far more valuable than any ads the Outfitter can purchase.