I found that using the knocker before the powder measure's lever is thrown makes the charge more accurate.

This is relevant to my Saeco powder measure, H4831sc and a charge in the 60 grs area.

I thought the knocker was to get any remaining grains out of the measure on each charge! Well they all fall out anyway with this measure and powder however the topic is accuracy and using the knocker before throwing the charge does matter!

Usually the knocker is for ensuring there is no powder hanging up after throwing the charge but if you are getting more consistent charges by using the knocker to 'pack' the measure before throwing the charge then that is fine. You would obviously have set your charge initially using the same method.
The obvious danger is if you set your charge without using the knocker to pack and then do use it when throwing charges, they will all be heavier powder charges especially so with finer grain powder, I guess you will be well aware of this though!

It really doesn't matter as long as your consistent with the operation. smooth and steady works for me.

Of course "smooth and steady" is good as well as consistency.

However using the knocker after the measures lever is up and powder has entered the measures drum makes the weight of each charge more accurate for me.

The knockers intended use is to consistantly fill the throw chamber....nothing more

I don't use mine as I employ the double tap handle method....very consistent

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
The knockers intended use is to consistantly fill the throw chamber....nothing more

I don't use mine as I employ the double tap handle method....very consistent

What's the double tap handle method?

Why do you say "nothing more" when someone might want to be sure the thrown charge has all dropped out of the measure?

The following is the instruction from Lyman on how to use their #55 powder measure:

Charging the Shell
When the powder measure has been adjusted, flip the knocker several times to settle the
powder in the reservoir. Place a cartridge case in contact with the drop tube, raise the measure
handle against its stop without jarring the measure unnecessarily and return die handle to its
downward position. Flip the knocker so all of the charge will be jarred down into the case.

Saeco instructions, although not quite as clear as Lyman, imply that the handle should be consistently operated to open the powder cavity and then to throw the charge into the case - not mentioning using the knocker to fill the powder cavity.

At the end of the day it is what gives the most consistency in throwing a charge depending on who is using the measure and whatever sequence the knocker is used; either to pack the measuring cavity, or to ensure there are no powder hangup after the charge is thrown, the sequence used must be the same when setting the charge using scales and when throwing charges once the measure is set and locked.

IMO if using the knocker to help 'pack' the cavity it must be very consistent e.g. 1 or 2 equal intensity knocks otherwise charges could vary depending on the powder type. What happens if you do not flip the knocker properly when charging the cavity as sometimes happens when using it to prevent powder hangup, do you dispense this charge back to the reservoir and go again?

If using the knocker just to ensure there is no powder hangup in the drop tube after the charge is thrown, the knocker helps to keep the powder settled in the reservoir above and below the baffle plate and then just the throw of the handle without any excessive vibration should give the most consistent powder charge. I personally prefer this method as there is one less variable when filling the measure's cavity.

I have found that H4831SC in fact "bridges" or "hangs" more than does regular H4831 with itss longer grains. I think because H4831SC is not graphite coated?

Weigh every round unless it is a ball type powder.
Never trusted the "just throw it" method. Check every tenth one or so even if sure...

2 cents

The double tap is in how you use the handle

Upon rolling the charge chamber open you clunk the stop 2 times....clunk clunk

Then rolling the charge chamber to the drop position yoy clunk the stop 2 times...

Never use the knocker again

You like the number 3 or 4? Clunk it some more.

BNagel - Your method is what I use, especially if it's a hunting load, which is 90% of my reloads. Weighing each charge and using a powder trickle tool takes a little more time, but you KNOW that each round has exactly the same charge. Works for me and I do use the "double tap" for the initial drop.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter
R8 Blaser
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by BNagel:
Weigh every round unless it is a ball type powder.
Never trusted the "just throw it" method. Check every tenth one or so even if sure...

2 cents

I only use a powder throw for high volume loading and I weigh a charge every 25th round

High volume......300 to 500 up to 1k

The 55 measure is worthless for any long stick powders. Buy an RCBS electronic dispenser unit.
For Ball. very short stick and flake powers the 55 is great. I own 5 of them to avoid changing powders and resetting them.
The knocker is 100% necessary if dropping flake or ball powders into cartridges in a loading block. One full knock after dumping the charge ensures two things: All the powder in the drop tube ends up in the case and the remaining powder in the hopper is compressed just right. The hopper should never be allowed to be more than 1/3 empty.
Can load 50 30-06s with W760 and they never vary more than +-1/10 gr which has zero effect on accuracy ot groups.

I have not found that the use of the knocker with my Lyman 55 had any significant bearing on accuracy or consistency. Thesedays I use a Lee PM on a turret press, so it has a built in knocker action every time I seat a bullet, gives the entire measure a little jostle, and it is as consistent and accurate as anything I have ever tried.

ah a measure with knockers - diabolical but what fun

I won't get into the knock or don't knock debate. I have done it both ways in BR competition with equal results.

I also found no need to restrict thrown but not weighed charges to just ball powders. Some of the small grain extruded powders such as Vihtavouri N-133 or N135, H-322, and others meter just as well as ball powders.

I DO weigh every charge with long stick powders such as 4064, 4350, 4831, or their equivalents in some of the European powders. A small variation, say +/- 1/2 grain make no detectable difference in the hunting field at ranges up to about 400 yards IN A GOOD LOAD. GOOD loads have a "sweet spot" at least 1 grain wide where the variation of that much is irrelevant in hunting loads.

That assumes, of course that one isn't running a load which is really too hot anyway.

But, with the long grain powders, bridging can cause a load to vary as much as 3-5 grains...definitely a no-no, specially if it is 3-5 grains heavier than intended, added to an already borderline max load.

Your mileage may vary.

After reading the OP I tried using a rawhide mallet on the thrower to see if it would achieve more consistent weights and it didn't make any difference in my RCBS thrower whether I tapped it or not. It made no difference in charge weights or consistency. BTW, I was throwing H4895 powder.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
The knockers intended use is to consistantly fill the throw chamber....nothing more

I don't use mine as I employ the double tap handle method....very consistent

What's the double tap handle method?

Why do you say "nothing more" when someone might want to be sure the thrown charge has all dropped out of the measure?

Same method I use for stick powders. Double tap.

No matter how you use it (the knocker) consistency is the key. With some powders it is difficult to get consistent charges through a powder measure but a consistent method will help a lot. I have an old #55 Lyman powder measure that does a good job of throwing consistent charges with stick powders and an RCBS powder measure that works very well with the ball propellants. I have my own techniques with each one and get consistent results. After 40 years things become routine.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage_99:
Of course "smooth and steady" is good as well as consistency.

However using the knocker after the measures lever is up and powder has entered the measures drum makes the weight of each charge more accurate for me.

Me too and for 57 years