I have found your work using Bluedot most interesting. I have reloaded a lot of reduced loads for various calibers and generally end up using Unique, not always but more so than other powders. Unique has a nice balance between bulk density versus burn rate plus an easy(consistent) ignition. What I know about Bluedot is that it is harder to ignite and is more dense than Unique. I emailed Alliant and they indicated that Bluedot has less NitroG and has more deterent so ignition can be inconsistent in light loads.

What has been your experience with Unique? I find that Unique performs better at higher presure, i.e. cleaner burning and more accurate than at lower pressures. How does Bluedot compare to this? Are your Bluedot loads position sensitive? Have you ever experienced sudden pressure spikes with Bluedot?

Thanks for any info you can provide and keep up the good work.

RJN

RJN:

MR Blue Dot; someone showing seafire a little respect? I must be off of the political forum, that is for sure.

I played with Unique, and several of the faster powders.
Regardless of statistics put out by Alliant ( I have a few family members that work there) about Unique, for my ownself, I was interested in finding out answers on my own. Reloading I do believe the axiom that each firearm is Unique to itself.

I did not find much consistency in Unique in a batch of calibers I tried it in, all loads out of the Lyman # 47 Manual.
Velocity spread according to my chronograph had a lot of deviation. I was not impressed with the accuracy at all either.

Up until them most of my downloads had consisted of IMR and Hodgdon 4198. ( I prefer IMR for performance consistency and Hodgdon for ease at the reload bench).
Unique did not come close to the accuracy I was getting with 4198 loads.

I also tried IMR's Small Rifle line, SR 4756, 7625 and finally 4759. The last one is not readily available locally for me, as the first two are. I still did not find what I was looking for in the first two for accuracy or velocity consistency ( which to me go hand in hand).

A few things lead to me looking at the site for Calhoon Bullets and their 19 Calhoon, as an older gentleman had one at the range and it intrigued me. They had a few articles they did, one in particular was " to 218 Bee or Not to 218 Bee" or something close to that. In it they had tried Blue Dot powder and were reporting good things about it in a 223.

So I tried that, and found some very good consistent results.
I also found a few other benefits, like economy of loads, lack of barrel heating up etc. So that became my 223 powder, period.

Well the thought of that migrated to the 22/250 and I got good results with that also. As long as one was not looking for 500 yds loads it did a great job. After that, I looked at it for my 444, since a lot of loads require compressed loads in that type of straight wall case which is a pain.

Since I had noticed Blue Dot used in some 44 Mag loads, I decided to try that load in the 444. It performed quite well. I also noticed that the recoil was reduced SUBSTANTIALLY.

So next I decided to try it in the 30/06. I worked it up slowly and once again saw velocity consistency and accuracy ran circle around Unique in my 30/06s ( I own about 6 of them).
Once again recoil was noticably less, yet I still found I could get field usable 200 yd loads with Blue Dot.

That worked out to me trying it in every caliber that I own in rifles.

So that is the history of my blue dot starts.

I also had concerns about sudden pressure spikes, like x grains being fine, and x + 0.5 grains blowing the primer. So that is why I worked up each caliber with each bullet weight I was going to use from low dosages on up until I saw pressure signs like extraction stiffness or loosen primers on reloading.

I did start noticing patterns on blue dot, some I reported and some I did not. One I did not report is that Blue Dot seems to have a preference for the fatter style cases. Such as you can push more velocity out of a 284 case or WSM case than a comparable 280 case. Longer Magnum cases are more versatile than regular non mag cases, such as 300 Mag shows more usefulness than 30/06 cases.
22/250 is more versatile than 223 cases, 243 cases are more versatile than 22/250 cases. Yet 243 cases are more versatile than a 6mm Remington case, because the longer cases show that they reach pressures faster.

That lead to the same question you had about position in the case of the powder. One gentleman on line beat me to doing that sort of testing and he found that position in the case did not matter. He went to extremes and found that the powder position did not show any sensitivity. He did this with a WSM in 30 caliber. I tried it in a batch of cases and even with charges as low as 4 grains in some cases like a 223, 22/250 and 243, and got the same results.

I have NEVER used any filler for the cases on these loads.

Since I have worked with this powder, I have had several articles forwarded to me by others that found similar work done with Blue Dot by a few writers. My take on it vs Unique is that Unique has been around for eternity and the Download market is not really that big a market, so why waste financial resources re inventing the wheel. That may be changing with Rem offering reduced loads in loaded ammo.

I experiment alot and am practical and find out what works and stick with it. If Unique was more consistent and accurate I would be using it. Blue Dot has had the LEAST standard deviation spread on velocity that I have ever encountered with any powder, period. Like only 4 fps in testing of 5 cases!

As I said earlier, that SR 4759 is not readily available here in Hooterville Oregon. Oregon is pretty rural and I like it that way. But I do travel for business and have purchased some at the Sportsmans Warehouse in Salem OR. I have not extensively tested it like I have Blue Dot, based on the fact that Blue Dot just works.

But what I have seen with SR 4759, If Blue Dot was not available anymore, then my first replacement would be 4759.

I have tried Green Dot and Red Dot and did nt get the consistency or accuracy I got with Blue Dot. In fact the others stunk!

As I just glance at my Blue Dot load record book, I show I tested it with a 60 grain Sierra HP. My lowest amount was 8 grains of powder to a max determined to be 22 grains. I went over that, but backed off the max point at 22 grains or so because their were no benefits with any more powder increase.

However as far as accuracy, my results show in my rifle that 8 grains was just as accurate as the 22 grains load and the groups were just as tight. Since I would use that bullet as a varmint load, I expect minute of prairie dog and ground squirrel at 200 yds with it. The groups have to be that tight and they were either way.

In the 223 with a 46 grain Winchester HP, I tested as low as 4 grains of Blue Dot and as high as 15, ( I use 14.5 grains as my field load). Accuracy was still minute of ground squirrel with either load. 4 , 5 and 6 grains of it makes an excellent handloaded 22 LR rifle equivalent.

In a 223 varmint weight rifle, it almost sounds like some hillbilly spitting out his chaw, instead of a rifle going off.
Accuracy is great at 100 yds, and recoil is really as close to non existant as one can get.

So I really enjoy Blue Dot. I also have tried 2400 on recommendations and give it honorable mention after SR 4759 for reduced loads. However I still go the Blue Dot.
I still use 4198 a lot and also RL 7. Both still give very useful accuracy. RL 7 is not as versatile as 4198 but when it shines, It really shines well. It is Swedish Made, and anything made in Sweden or Finland seems to be top shelf.

So that is the Seafire/Blue Dot saga. I hope it answered your questions. These response feels like writing a paper back in college, lol. If I did not answer you questions feel free to ask away.

In closing I like to point out I share my results with others on line, as a courtesy to fellow shooters. I do not submit this stuff as gospel, just reflective of my experiences. There seems to be an undertow of those that always want us to remind everyone to work up there loads. ( I personally look at that as common sense, because I don't care to contribute to the insanity of 'void of common sense' in our society that attorneys have created in my lifetime. The more stupid people get the more money that they can make, trying to sue someone for their client's lack of brains. Are you hearing this John Edwards????)

So safe shooting and reloading to all.

Cheers
seafire

Clark:



YOu have met that Blue Dot guy seafire.



You know he is so full of crap, it even embarrasses a toilet.



hope all is well up on Mercer Izland!



will be up your way next week, with luck will have some time and give ya abuzz!





cheers

jchr.

Mr. BlueDot?
Old Man BlueDot?
The BlueDot Guy?

Too much noise? Rifle kicks too hard? Barrel too hot?
Who ya gonna call?
The BlueDot Man!