I've just acquired a new one and I'm in the process of working up loads. I've loaded for the 270 for many years and have loads with H4831 and RL22 that have worked for me in previous guns that I'm very happy with. I'm interested in trying something new. Does anyone have any experience in the following areas?

1) Does anyone use magnum primers in the 270? Why? I hunt in temperatures that get to below 0 degrees and I wonder if a magnum primer would be a wise precaution.

2) Does anyone use H1000, RL25 or IMR7828? Favorite loads? It seems that even with the newer, slower powders, it's still hard to beat 4831/RL22 in this cartridge/bore.

3) Is H1000 an "extreme" powder? Due to the wide range of temperatures that I hunt in, I prefer temperature insensitive powders. I've also heard rumors that H1000 is subject to sudden pressure spikes. Any truth to the rumor?

4) Does anyone have a good load with a temperature insensitive powder that produces good accuracy and velocity equal or better to H4831?

While I agree with the practical advice to "shut, up, load partitions and go shoot", I'm becoming more experimental in my old age. Any advice from fellow members in these areas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Jim

I tried H1000 in my 270 awhile ago with 130gr bullets and didn`t get the velocity with it I did when useing R22 or H4831. It fills the case before you get where the pressure/vel are in the same range.

If you`re just hunting for a "extreem" powder you already have it with the H4831. H4350 is also a extreem powder and should give good results if you just want to play with loads. Sorry, I can`t offer more advice.

I had pretty good luck with the 130 grain Partition and IMR 7828.

quote:

Originally posted by Old Dog:
1) Does anyone use magnum primers in the 270? Why? I hunt in temperatures that get to below 0 degrees and I wonder if a magnum primer would be a wise precaution.

Magnum primers don't hurt a thing. Not sure they help either!!!

quote:

2) Does anyone use H1000, RL25 or IMR7828? Favorite loads? It seems that even with the newer, slower powders, it's still hard to beat 4831/RL22 in this cartridge/bore.

4831 and RL22 are the proper powders IMO~!!!

quote:

While I agree with the practical advice to "shut, up, load partitions and go shoot",

For run of the mill deer and pronghorns the old tried and true Hornady interlocks are a great bullet. For anything bigger the Swift A-Frames and the Northforks and TBBCs from Speer are better IMO than anything Nosler offers.

Of them I'm sold on the A-Frames.

quote:

Originally posted by Old Dog:
I've just acquired a new one and I'm in the process of working up loads. I've loaded for the 270 for many years and have loads with H4831 and RL22 that have worked for me in previous guns that I'm very happy with. I'm interested in trying something new. Does anyone have any experience in the following areas?

1) Does anyone use magnum primers in the 270? Why? I hunt in temperatures that get to below 0 degrees and I wonder if a magnum primer would be a wise precaution.

2) Does anyone use H1000, RL25 or IMR7828? Favorite loads? It seems that even with the newer, slower powders, it's still hard to beat 4831/RL22 in this cartridge/bore.

3) Is H1000 an "extreme" powder? Due to the wide range of temperatures that I hunt in, I prefer temperature insensitive powders. I've also heard rumors that H1000 is subject to sudden pressure spikes. Any truth to the rumor?

4) Does anyone have a good load with a temperature insensitive powder that produces good accuracy and velocity equal or better to H4831?

While I agree with the practical advice to "shut, up, load partitions and go shoot", I'm becoming more experimental in my old age. Any advice from fellow members in these areas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Jim

H1000 is an extreme powder. I had great accuracy success with it in my 270 with 140 grain bullets but velocity was all of 30fps faster than H4831. That was with nonmag primers. I have used magnum primers with Re22 and H1000 but it simply, IMO, wasn't necessary. Just not enough powder in the case, although some well known reloaders have stated that you will have better success with a magnum primer. In 15 years of reloading, I never saw the benefit, and I've hunted in temps below zero also. I honestly do not think you will need IMR7828 or Re25 unless you are just wanting extra rangetime. With your new 270, you can still try something new with something proven. So many bullets to choose from. My standard 270 powders are IMR4831, H4831, Re22, and Re19. If I cannot work up a load with one of those that is satisfactory, I start looking at the rifle. Second tier choices are AA3100 (a very very good powder for the 270), IMR4350, H4350, VV160/165.

Between my brother and I and 4 270's, the best loads are with H4831 and Re22. However, I do have one rifle (Ruger with Hart barrel) that will now drive a 130 TSX over Re19 into one very tiny ragged hole at 100 yards with 4-6 shots, so long as I let the barrel cool. My brother's rifle with the exact same components prefers H4831 instead of Re19 more powder. His rifle has the same length barrel but is a PacNor.

You're probably aware that Speer published IMR7828 as the fastest (velocity) powder for their 130 bullet (not sure which book). Back to the H1000. I was like you, wanting to try something new. It is a great load with the 140 Nos. BTip but not necessary. Groups sure were tight and consistant though while shooting in high wind and freezing cold in Kansas.

My Ruger MKII M77 likes Barnes 130gr triple shock bullets with H-1000 60gr,WLR,W-W.I've also had great results with IMR-4350 powder.I like the triple shock bullets alot.

Thanks for all the responses, guys! I currently have favorite loads using 60gr +/- of H4831 and RL22 in WW cases with Federal 210 primers that have shot very well in all my 270s. However, I have always had trouble breaking 3000fps with a 22" barrel and was wondering if some of the newer powders might allow it, while still retaining the temperature insensitivity of H4831.

Ol' Joe, thanks for your experience with H1000, I use it with some success in a 7STW, but was afraid I wouldn't be able to get enough in a 270 case to make a significant velocity diference.

Sniper, how many grains did it take you to have pretty good luck, and did you use magnum primers?

Vapodog, it seems to be the concesus that magnum primers don't hurt a thing but it's not certain that they help either! I don't hunt game larger than deer with a 270 and, like you, I love plain, old Hornady Interlocks. For larger game I still like Hornady Interlocks, just in bigger calibers. I would like TBBCs, A-Frames and Northforks a lot better if they had decent BCs. I'm thinking the Accubonds might be the answer for me.

Doc, thanks for the input on H1000. I was afraid that would be the case. No sense in changing powder for negligible improvement. I was very interested in your experience with magnum primers at below 0 temperatures. If there is no advantage I'll stick to Large Rifle.

RiflemanZ, the H1000 recipe sounds like a good load. Do you have any idea what the velocity is and the barrel length you used? I tend to like the TSX bullet too, as long as I can be sure that it will be moving above 2800fps at impact.

Thanks for all the help, guys. I appreciate it.

Jim

Well I can give you more specifics on the subzero hunts with magnum primers. I was hunting in northern MO. I ALWAYS take at least 2 rifles when I travel to hunt just in case something happens to one of them.

I had 2 270's with me. One had WLRM primers and the other were standard WLR. The powder happened to be the same, Re22, the bullets were 150 Speer spitzers. Brian, my friend, had a cheap Simmons scope on his rifle and it was bumped and wouldn't re-align. He borrowed one of my rifles. We both killed a couple of does within minutes while stalking together, both guns shot just fine and there was absolutley no noticeable difference between the 2. We both got our bucks too.

Brian knew that I was big into load development and testing. While we were taking pictures of our deer, I (jokingly) asked both of the carcasses if they noticed a big difference in how dead they were. They didn't answer me.

You do NOT need a magnum primer IMO in a 270 under any circumstance, no matter how slow the powder.

AA's Magpro is good with 130 to 150 grainers in the 270. Thier web site shows 65.0 grs and 3224 fps for the 130 grain and 61.5 and 3000 fps for the 150 grain bullets. I have duplicated both with Magpro in a 24 inch bbl. This is a dense ball powder, so capacity is not an issue in reloading the 270 even though the powder is slower than R22.

Try 60 grains of AA3100 in front of a standard primer and behind a 130-grain bullet. I have shot this load over a chronograph, and out of my 22" BDL it gives 3150 fps, into one ragged hole at 100 yards. Accurate, now owned by Western Powders, stated specifically NOT to use magnum primers with any of their powders, because they were cotton based and did not need the extra "oomph" of a mag primer. If I WERE going to use a mag primer, however, I would back off a couple of grains and work up from there. FWIW, Larry Adkins at Accurate told me several years back that their AA3100 was an exact duplication of IMR 4831, but AA's powder was cotton-based, not wood, and it was about a grain slower. I experienced this exactly. My "old" load was 59 grains of IMR 4831, and all I did was bump the powder one grain, seat the bullet ~.007 from the lands, and let the good times roll...

Doubless, what exact bullet did you use?

The very best load I ever had with AA3100 was with a 140 HPBT Sierra Gameking. When I took the load to the range I thought I was missing the target all together after the first shot...till the hole got a little bigger.

It was like Robin Hooding an arrow for the first time.

I was shooting a 130-grain Speer GS. I have done the same thing with 130-grain Sierra Pro Hunters, but will never shoot another one of them at anything that breathes. I have had them come completely apart on TX hill country whitetails twice, and that is totally unsatisfactory. If they work well for you, you have my best wishes. I just won't use them.

The GS bullet is a fine performer on deer and hogs, in my estimation. But even a 150-grain GS out of a .270 won't stand up to the muscle structure of an elk. I shot the only elk I have ever taken with one in 1997, and it came apart. Did its job, and we found the bull, but all there was was a 39-grain piece of lead against the off-side skin. And I never hit bone...

I did take an Alabama doe one year with it and it worked fine. It is the only animal I've taken with a Sierra (unless I'm forgetting one).

I've posted it here before but I'll restate it. Other than archery, better than 95% of the game I've taken with a firearm was with the Nos. Ballistic Tip. I had absolutely no knowledge at the time (all those many years) that it was a "questionable or risky" bullet to use. Not till I heard a fellow in Tucson at Jensen's custom ammunition tell me that some have blown up on some Coues and desert mulies did I ever hear about them being less than adequate. But even that guy said it was only the earliest ones made. I didn't use any till 1990 and I figured by then all the kinks were worked out.

They sure kill the crap out of deer. 2 years ago while in Cortez, Colorado, a friend of a friend said he killed his bull elk with his 25.06 and BTips. Now I had heard the rumors by then and asked him if they did the job and he said he had to empty the gun into the bull at less than 100 yards. I simply told him that I think there were better bullets out there for that caliber and on bigger animals like an elk.

After reading a post a few months ago about using slow powders in the 30-06 case, I reloaded some rounds using different bullets and slower powders RL22, RL25, and IMR7828. Did not realize the accuracy that I had previously worked up with a faster powder, IMR4831. IMR4831 has always worked better for me than H4831.

Have loaded some with magnum primers but did not notice a difference.

Here's my load but it is close to maximum


IMR4350 also works well but the accuracy goes down when you try to gain velocity



Don't know it the IMR powders are "extreme" or temperature insensitive or not.

Doc, have a new bottle of RL19. What load are you using in that #1 with 130 TSX?


Without guns we are subjects, with guns we are citizens

The powder that I have had the most sucees with in my 270 Win is Reloader 22 with Fed 210M Match primers in Fed or WW cases.

Check out the loads data on

http://www.realguns.com

Doc, my experience with Nosler Ballistic Tips consisted of one hunt in the TX Hill Country about 13 years ago. We were headed to the stands one afternoon when a sow and one pig (`40#) jumped up. A friend of mine had some of the 150 BTs in .30 caliber, and asked me to try them, taking a head shot if I could. I shot the pig in the head at about 40 yards. He stumbled and kept running. The next shot was with a Hornady 150-grain Interlock, and it dumped him fanny over teakettle. The two holes were less than half an inch apart. Why the BTip didn't expand I don;t know. The Interlock opened up wonderfully well, and he never knew what hit him.

Later that afternoon I watched a doe for over two hours, until she got within ~50 yards. When she put her head down I shot her in that 4" X 6" area below the left ear, with a BTip. That was enough. It blew both eyes out of the sockets, blew the skull cap off and left it hanging by the skin of the head. Brain was gone, totally... Humane, yes, of course. But I don't have to destroy even an animal's carcass like that. They deserve better, even in death.

Two totally different reactions from the same bullet. I was puzzled, to say the least.

Lastly, I have been told that the first generation B Tips were thin jacketed, and they were re-designed to eliminate the explosive nature they exhibited. But even the late Finn Aagard refused to use them, saying they were too explosive for his tastes. I thnk this was an attempt by Nosler to make a very accurate "on paper" bullet work well in the woods. I suspect they do, and they are very popular. I just think there are other bullets out there that will work as well, and not make such a mess, and that is what I lean towards. I shoot Speer GS bullets for deer and pigs, and will load Nosler Solid Bases, the originals, for anything bigger.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:
Doc, have a new bottle of RL19. What load are you using in that #1 with 130 TSX?

57.0 grains, 130 TSX, WW brass, FED210 Gold Medal Match primer, seated 10 thousand off the lands, Ruger MKII M77 Left hand, customized with squared and trued action, glass bed, free float barrel, #1 Contour HART barrel, 25.5" long...chrono at 3168 with 9fps sd when cool, 14fps sd when warm (~ 65 and warmer).

But your IMR4350 load looks great too, why change?

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Lastly, I have been told that the first generation B Tips were thin jacketed, and they were re-designed to eliminate the explosive nature they exhibited. But even the late Finn Aagard refused to use them, saying they were too explosive for his tastes. I thnk this was an attempt by Nosler to make a very accurate "on paper" bullet work well in the woods. I suspect they do, and they are very popular. I just think there are other bullets out there that will work as well, and not make such a mess, and that is what I lean towards. I shoot Speer GS bullets for deer and pigs, and will load Nosler Solid Bases, the originals, for anything bigger.

Sorry, I don't know who Finn is. In terms of their popularity, well, that is obvious. Otherwise, Federal and Remington wouldn't be loading them. Not sure if Rem still is now that they have their Accutip. But I called Federal some years ago about the btips and they said beyond any doubt that if they had a problem with them, they would not load them. I currently no longer use the BTip personally because the TSX has come about and it is (fact) not my opinion, THE BEST HUNTING BULLET EVER. (Ok, let the party start on that comment..LOL).

Regarding your shot on the doe, well WHUDYA EXPECT?!! I've killed a ton of Missouri does with head shots at close range and never had that happen. Sounds sick, but uhh, I'd kind of like to see what you described. Head shots aren't too popular with many who post here so we'll most likely get some wrist slapping for even talking about it.

Huh, bullets, they sure spark fertile grounds for discussion. Here's my Kansas buck, entrance hole with 168 TSX from my .06 at 60 yards:


Here's the exit hole:


Here he is when he was still pretty. You can see the blood spot where the entrance hole is behind his left shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:

But your IMR4350 load looks great too, why change?

Needed more velocity so I could match trajectory to the Burris ballistic mil dot reticle. The 140 grain at about 3170 fps matches it better.

You won't get any argument from me about the TSX. Just shoot 'em through the shoulder under 200 yards and in the heart / lung past 200 yards.


Without guns we are subjects, with guns we are citizens

I want to make sure I'm clear about your last post...you wrote 140 grain at 3170...but your target reads 130.

Did you mean 140 indeed?

Yes, 140

Those 2 targets have the velocity on them and you will notice that on that particular day 4 shots averaged 3209 fps with 59.3 grains IMR4831. Don't see signs of pressure until 3275 to 3300 fps on that particular rifle. I think it is a faster than usual barrel. 23" SS Sako. I did shoot that string last, and velocity increases as the barrel gets dirtier. Usually that load averages 3170 fps.

Actually, that was on the trip where I was trying RL22 loads

TSX 60 grains (3167 fps) & TSX 60.5 grains (3170 fps)


TSX 61 grains (3178 fps) & 140 Accubond 60.5 grains (3160 fps)


And 140 Accubond 61 grains (3186 fps)


Then I decided to shoot my hunting load to check because the accuracy with the RL22 was not what I was used to. That was the target I posted above. So it seems my rifle does not like the RL22 as well as the IMR4831.

Where I'd really like to try that RL19 is in my 30-06 where I don't have a good load yet.

BTW, nice buck!


Without guns we are subjects, with guns we are citizens

I never tried the Re19 in my .06. H4350 worked so good for the 168 and 180 TSX I didn't bother trying any other powder.

I never chronied it because my .06 is my 250 and under rifle so I didn't give a hoot how fast the bullet was going. The groups were so tight it didn't matter.

I don't think you need magnum primers. In fact, I think that magnum primers tend to decrease accuracy in those loads for which you don't really need them. The regular Winchester WLR primer seems to me to be excellent in the 270 Winchester, for any powder that can be used in this round.

quote:

Originally posted by Old Dog:

I currently have favorite loads using 60gr +/- of H4831 and RL22 in WW cases with Federal 210 primers that have shot very well in all my 270s. However, I have always had trouble breaking 3000fps with a 22" barrel and was wondering if some of the newer powders might allow it, while still retaining the temperature insensitivity of H4831.

I've had my best results in the 270 with RL22 -- it gives me higher velocities than what I can get with H4831. IMR 7828 will also produce top velocities, at least in my .270 -- a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle with a 22" barrel. With either of those powders you should be able to get to 3100 f.p.s. from 130 grain bullets in a 22" barrel. I like WW cases with the WLR primer.

Although it has given me good accuracy, I have not been able to get top velocity in my .270 from IMR 4350.

Hi Woods

your load of 59.5 grains of IMR 4831 behind a 140 TSX, what is your overall cartridge length and have you tried moving the bullet closer to , or away from the lands.

My own test so far with this bullet in my own .270 have proved less than encouraging, I asked Barnes what powder they would recommend and they advised to try H414, unless I am mistaken the bullets with a top load of that powder (taken from the #3 Manual) were passing through the target almost sideways.

I have not had this before in this rifle even with 140 Failsafes, I am presently running with the TSX pulled back about .060" from the lands, so have plenty of room to move forward, if indeed this will assist.

Any thoughts?

J T

That load of 59.3 grains of IMR4831 is just under max and you should work up to it looking for pressure signs.

As far as H414 goes, it does not show very good velocity figures in my Nosler #5 Reloading Manual. IMR4831 is listed as the "most accurate powder tested" and H4831SC is listed as having the best velocity.

I have also had a "keyholing experience" with
TSX bullets in a 30-06 shooting 200 grain bullets at too slow a velocity. A TSX is long for its weight so it needs plenty of velocity to stabilize in most rifles, depending on twist rate.

I load all my TSX loads at .05" off the lands and don't worry about it. I don't record my COAL just the comparator reading from the Stoney Point Gauge and that would have no meaning to you and might be misleading.


Without guns we are subjects (or victims), with guns we are citizens

Hi Woods

Thank you for that. As I have 2 tins of IMR 4831 on the shelf I will certainly give it a go. I am at .065 from lands at present so I shall remain at this and substitue the 414 for IMR. Incidentally I almost always use Rel #22 or H-4831 and have thus far got good results with most traditional lead cored bullets used in the past.

I only tried 414 on the recommendation of the good folks at Barnes and was a little surprised at their suggestion, but as they know more than I on the subject it was worth a shot.

I too hope to try the 140 AB's as and when they become available here, I think certain calibre sizes are here, but not it seems .270.

Also got some Failsafes to try, but supply of these here is limited, not to say expensive, so there may be little point in spending time on load development if the supply then dries up. The jury also seems to be out on these in respect of expansion on all but the heaviest of game and as our largest species in the U.K is the Red deer, it may be the case that the AB's are what the doctor ordered.

I will post my results but it may be a week or two before my next range session.

Thanks again

JT