6.5 Grendel has been on my radar screen for a long time due to it's extended range capability out of an standard AR platform. But those variants are usually found with 20"-24" tubes on them, and since I own a couple .
accurate bolt action .50BMG rifles, along with .300WM/.308 ones, I've always kinda said "so what" to myself.

Recently, I crunched some numbers for 120-123grain 6.5 projos out of a 12" barreled AR platform and I was amazed at what is still possible out of the Grendel wonder round. Basically, projos are still supersonic out to @1000yards and still capable of delivering .357Magnum at the muzzle energy at 600+ yards! Out of an AR pistol! NOW WE'RE GETTING THE BACON DELIVERED, and it fits inside a back pack!!
So, I put one such beast together recently and while I intend to do a barrel break-in with factory loaded fodder, I bought 800 brand new Grendel cases to begin doing some accurate load work, right after break in has been completed.

Online, the shortest barrel length I can find any extensive load data for (more than 1 recipe) is 18".

Using Quick Load software to analyze some of the reported more accurate powders for 6.5 Grendel caliber, I find that Win748, ARComp, and 8208XBR are all projected to develop 2200+FPS out of the 12" tube while staying under the 52,000psi SAAMI limit.

Does anyone have any other suggestions for my quest?

Two sources you can try —

1) ammoguide.com that has one load posted for a 12.5” barrel and several for 14.5” barrels. There is also a velocity estimator that gets estimates for changed barrel lengths, bullet weights and powder charge weights.

2) 65grendel.com that has a lot of discussions about loading for pistol-length barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:
Two sources you can try —

1) ammoguide.com that has one load posted for a 12.5” barrel and several for 14.5” barrels. There is also a velocity estimator that gets estimates for changed barrel lengths, bullet weights and powder charge weights.

2) 65grendel.com that has a lot of discussions about loading for pistol-length barrels.

Thanks JA.
Looks like you're a major contributor to the 6.5 Grendel data over at Ammoguide.

I hear ya on extrapolating velocity figures for a 12" tube from the longer barrel data, but with such a significant decrease in barrel length (33% to 50% depending), that in itself can be a practice in futility to some degree.

I'm thinking there are gains to be realized with different/faster powers with loads which would be less beneficial, if not impossible, in the longer barrels.

Truth in advertising — three of us accumulated a pile of loads from our own data and then-existing loads in the 65Grendel.com forum to help create a subscription database, literature repository and store for things Grendel. I got the chore of uploading to ammoguide.com when the initiative fell apart. It was done in a batch mode so my user ID got atuck on as the source.

Credit to the actual contributor is included in the comments section for each load.

About 40 years ago, handgun silhouette shooters clearly demonstrated that the powders which produce the highest velocities in long barrels almost always produce the highest velocities in short barrels. Not always the best accuracy, not always the lowest muzzle blast, but the highest speeds. The answer to the OP’s question, as usual, is “it depends”.



.

Point well taken TX Nimrod.
Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by PJS50:
Using Quick Load software to analyze...

That is what I would've suggested, so I think you're on the right track. There are a lot of powder options in that range of burn speed. Typically regular loads work fine in short barrels too. In quickload, if you look for the most complete burn and/or lowest muzzle pressure--these loads might have an edge in a short barrel in terms of accuracy, muzzle flash, etc. At least I've noticed this with pistol cartridges in carbines vs pistols.

Let us know how it goes!

quote:

Originally posted by jpl:

quote:

Originally posted by PJS50:
Using Quick Load software to analyze...

That is what I would've suggested, so I think you're on the right track. There are a lot of powder options in that range of burn speed. Typically regular loads work fine in short barrels too. In quickload, if you look for the most complete burn and/or lowest muzzle pressure--these loads might have an edge in a short barrel in terms of accuracy, muzzle flash, etc. At least I've noticed this with pistol cartridges in carbines vs pistols.

Let us know how it goes!

Thanks for the added suggestion — I also have extensively used QuickLoad and have looked at the burn fraction column.

I have also observed that good performance on long barrels normally translates to similar performance in shorter barrels.

Using the powder fraction burned burned is a tool for optimizing short barrel velocity is one I hadn’t thought of.

quote:

Originally posted by jpl:
That is what I would've suggested, so I think you're on the right track. There are a lot of powder options in that range of burn speed. Typically regular loads work fine in short barrels too. In quickload, if you look for the most complete burn and/or lowest muzzle pressure--these loads might have an edge in a short barrel in terms of accuracy, muzzle flash, etc. At least I've noticed this with pistol cartridges in carbines vs pistols.

Let us know how it goes!

I agree with you JPL.
I was amazed at some of my old favorite standbys for 5.56mm & .308 rifle loads, like Win748, show great promise in the 12" barrel config. when analyzed through Quick Load.
Regarding the fraction of powder burnt, one generally doesn't want 100% of the powder burned, correct? For rifle loads, I always thought the best accuracy and velocity was usually attained when there was still a small percentage of powder exiting the barrel unburned. Am I correct on that generally?

Here's a QL chart for Win 748. Develops a good velocity and for the numbers, this one looks to be about ideal, no?


ARComp usually does well in 6.5G Rifle loads. It also makes a pretty good V in a 12" tube, but look at how much powder is burned in that distance. Too Fast? Why does it doo well in longer barrels then?


IMR8208 does pretty good as well. Little slower V than 748, but similar numbers:


Then there's Ramshot TAC. looks too slow for a 12" tube, right?

Now HERE'S a high BC projectile!
I think I'll make an AR pistol for this caliber too:

I had best accuracy and velocity with AA 2520 120 to 123 gr. Went to Alexander Arms for data they developed cartridge as I recall.

http://www.alexanderarms.com/i...l_reloading-2018.pdf

http://www.alexanderarms.com/i...endel-Ballistics.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by kk alaska:
I had best accuracy and velocity with AA 2520 120 to 123 gr. Went to Alexander Arms for data they developed cartridge as I recall.

http://www.alexanderarms.com/i...l_reloading-2018.pdf

http://www.alexanderarms.com/i...endel-Ballistics.pdf

Pay attention. Wiki said this about who designed the 6.5 Grendel: The 6.5mm Grendel is an intermediate cartridge designed by Arne Brennan, Bill Alexander and Janne Pohjoispää as a low-recoil, high-accuracy cartridge specifically for the AR-15 platform at medium/long range. It is an improved variation of the 6.5mm PPC.

The real truth is Arne Brennan was shooting a necked up 6mm PPC to 6.5mm for many years before Bill Alexander got a twinkle in his eye to make something like it. Lothar Walther put Arne Brennan and Bill Alexander together as they previously didn't know one another. They submitted the cartridge to Janne at Lapua. Janne said they were working a somewhat similar cartridge. He said let me tweak it some, they said okay, and Janne submitted it to them and liked it. The rest was history. Bill didn't have much to do with it. This comes from my cousin who a very good friend of Arne Brennan and the then CEO of Lothar Walther. He was somewhat involved with all of it. Don't let those 6.5Grendel Forum boys, nor Bill Alexander tell you any different. Arne had gone on to develop the 45 Raptor, 375 Raptor, 7mm Raptor, and 25 Raptor.

Almost any of us could have gotten the case dimensions worked out. The hard part was getting decent performance with more than one bullet.

Bill was in fact heavily involved in design and testing the Grendel. He went through dozens of reamers to get the cartridge to perform accurately with a wide variety of bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:
Almost any of us could have gotten the case dimensions worked out. The hard part was getting decent performance with more than one bullet.

Bill was in fact heavily involved in design and testing the Grendel. He went through dozens of reamers to get the cartridge to perform accurately with a wide variety of bullets.

That sir is total bullshit.

He also burn his bridges with just about everyone he came in contact with. Why you think Les Baer renamed the 6.5 Grendels he was making to 264 LBC? Bill screwed him over. Call Dave Kiff up at Pacific Tool & Gage and ask him what he thinks about Bill. Call Lothar Walther barrels up and ask them how many thousands of dollars Bill stuck them with. Ask Steve Hornady if he's happy he got the 6.5 saami for Bill. You don't know what you're talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by kk alaska:
I had best accuracy and velocity with AA 2520 120 to 123 gr. Went to Alexander Arms for data they developed cartridge as I recall.

http://www.alexanderarms.com/i...l_reloading-2018.pdf

http://www.alexanderarms.com/i...endel-Ballistics.pdf

Thanks KK!
My friends version of Quick Load didn't have that 2520 powder. But ACC 2200 & 2230 seemed to be OK for the short tube as well. V not as high as the previous powders I posted though.
2230


2200



vzerone & JA.
I don't know enough about this cartridge to say anything other than THANKS to whoever did the original legwork on it to make it happen.
I always did kinda wonder why Les Baer marketed the round with a different name. Bad feelings could very possibly produce this kind of activity.
Some of what vzerone is saying would make some sense in the way this cartridge has been so slow to catch on too. I mean for what it is capable of in such a broad spectrum of barrels, bullets, etc... You'd think it would have gained a LOT more traction considering how long it has been around.
Being an extreme long range/.50BMG guy myself, I remember when the first inklings of 6.5G hit the public's knowledge and even us .50 guys were impressed with the round's capability out of an AR platform.

Also, on the round 6.5G came from, I always understood the parent case was 7.62X39, with the exception of the primer size, no?
I've met guys at the local range who have fire-formed their own large primer 6.5G cases out of the Russian 7.62 ones, so there has to be something to this derivation, no?

I readily concede that I don’t everything. I also concur that Bill has what some would describe as an ‘interesting’ personality who does nor not suffer fools very well.

I DO know, however that the .264 LBC was named as much because Bill owned the Grendel trademark at the time and was unwilling to let the name be used on anything that did not use the same throat as what eventually became the SAAMI spec throat.

This drove folks like Dave Kiff nuts because they felt the only way to get a super accurate cartridge would be to give it a standard free bore.

Bill determined that, while the the standard works well for particular bullets, but when working within COAL constraints posed by the magazine well, it performed less well for other bullets.

The compound throat was developed after a lot of research and extensive testing. He eventually discovered that rifles with good reputations for accuracy with a variety of bullets and less than sterling dimensional controls were ones like the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser that used tapered freebores. He further discovered that the low pressures, by modern standards, used by the Grendel gave challenges for consistent burn in the early stages when using today’s powders.

By adding a 1.5 degree throat to the 0.5 degree freebore taper, he got the bullet alignment need for a variety of bullet weights and consistent early ohase powder burns.

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:
Almost any of us could have gotten the case dimensions worked out. The hard part was getting decent performance with more than one bullet.

Bill was in fact heavily involved in design and testing the Grendel. He went through dozens of reamers to get the cartridge to perform accurately with a wide variety of bullets.

That sir is total bullshit.

He also burn his bridges with just about everyone he came in contact with. Why you think Les Baer renamed the 6.5 Grendels he was making to 264 LBC? Bill screwed him over. Call Dave Kiff up at Pacific Tool & Gage and ask him what he thinks about Bill. Call Lothar Walther barrels up and ask them how many thousands of dollars Bill stuck them with. Ask Steve Hornady if he's happy he got the 6.5 saami for Bill. You don't know what you're talking about.

I readily concede that I don’t everything. I also concur that Bill has what some would describe as an ‘interesting’ personality who does nor not suffer fools very well.

I DO know, however that the .264 LBC was named as much because Bill owned the Grendel trademark at the time and was unwilling to let the name be used on anything that did not use the same throat as what eventually became the SAAMI spec throat.

This drove folks like Dave Kiff nuts because they felt the only way to get a super accurate cartridge would be to give it a standard free bore.

Bill determined that, while the the standard works well for particular bullets, but when working within COAL constrains posed by the magazine well, it performed less well for other bullets.

The compound throat was developed after a lot of research and extensive testing. He eventually discovered that rifles qith good reputations for accuracy with a ariety of bullets and less than sterling dimensional controls were ones like the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser that used tapered freebores. He further discovered that the low pressures, by modern standards, used by the Grendel gave challenges for consistent burn in the early stages when using today’s powders.

By adding a 1.5 degree throat to the 0.5 degree freebore twpe, he got the bullet alignment need for a variety of bullet weights and consistent early ohase powder burns.

The compound throat was developed by a fellow at the Lothar Walther barrel factory in Atlanta, GA. Arne Brennan designed two chamber neck diameters. The standard at .300 and the match at .295.

Here's what happened with Les Baer. Les had to wait for bolts from AA. When Les found out that Bill was shipping bolts to others and putting Les on the bottom of the list, that was enough for Les. He then tweaked the chamber/throat, named it for his company, and the rest was history. Had noting to do with trademarks or patents, had to do with Bill pissing Les off.

In the beginning Bill tried to keep the cartridge proprietary. That's why it took so long to SAAMI. Also at first all the reloading dies (at first LEE and Redding) got the wrong dimensions from Bill and people had trouble sizing the case down to fit the chamber. Bill made a huge mess of everything. By the way Bill stuck Dave Kiff for a few grand also. Bill has burnt more bridges then the U.S. Army did in WW2. Lapua won't sell Bill brass anymore unless the money is up front and it's a huge volume order. He burnt them too!


Yes Bill is quite a charactor and a really interesting guy to talk with. I suppose you know that at one time he was on the wanted list at Scotland Yard Police Dept? Long story there. That's partly the reason he ended up in the U.S. on a green card.

You know he got canned at AA quite some time ago?

With all this and that said the 6.5 Grendel is really good cartridge. I'm on my second one. A better cartridge for shooting flatter for long distance is a 6mm. That would be a 6mm PPC until they recently came out with the 6mm Creedmore, but David Wilson just recently broke the 1000 yard record by shooting something like a 1.04 INCH, yup INCH, group. It's here in Accurate forum. The 6.5 Grendel is still a good round.

We should stay away from possibly slanderous statements like being on someone’s wanted list.

It only serves to make the rest of the arguments appear to be mere slander and thereby less credible.

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:
We should stay away from possibly slanderous statements like being on someone’s wanted list.

It only serves to make the rest of the arguments appear to be mere slander and thereby less credible.

My statements aren't slanderous. They can be backed up by talking to the people I named.

I was more involved in all this then you could ever imagine.

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:
We should stay away from possibly slanderous statements like being on someone’s wanted list.

It only serves to make the rest of the arguments appear to be mere slander and thereby less credible.

My statements aren't slanderous. They can be backed up by talking to the people I named.

I was more involved in all this then you could ever imagine.

I apologize to our sister and fellow readers for participating in a side track of this thread. Nonetheless I could not allow claims that to stand when the slander is so obvious.

I have been polite and factual and do indeed have direct knowledge of details of some of the described events -- I suspected that vzerone has been, and still appears to be, part of the small group who insist on using slander and anger to attempt to prove points.

This attitude cost them a lot of customers, which possibly adds to the angst. I offer my condolences for their losses.

An otherwise informative and interesting thread was just shot to hell!

Zeke

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:
An otherwise informative and interesting thread was just shot to hell!

Zeke

When two people made incorrect statements about who created the 6.5 Grendel you better believe I'll step in and say something to correct it. Neither of the two know diddly squat about the true history of the 6.5 Grendel, nor do they know the real truth about Bill Alexander. JASmith know very little about the real history. He belongs to a small group that spread internet myths around then attempts to make himself look better by saying I'm slandering. Like I said if he calls all those people I mentioned he's get a rude awakening who's telling the truth. I'll even provide him with the phone numbers. You are a myth spreader JASmith with you BS of phoney knowledge.

He who posts last thinks he “wins.”. Others who carefully read the exchanges can decide for themselves.

Indeed I am very familiar with most of the names mentioned and know they choose not to understand the cartridge and the realities of quality control.

I have long ago given up on doing tit-for-tat ad-infinitum with fools who think they know things.

I will give vzerone the last post and the ‘satisfaction’ that goes with it.

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:
He who posts last thinks he “wins.”. Others who carefully read the exchanges can decide for themselves.

Indeed I am very familiar with most of the names mentioned and know they choose not to understand the cartridge and the realities of quality control.

I have long ago given up on doing tit-for-tat ad-infinitum with fools who think they know things.

I will give vzerone the last post and the ‘satisfaction’ that goes with it.

Aah, so Arne Brennan the inventor of that cartridge hey choose not to understand the cartridge and the realities of quality control? Add Lothar Walther, add Les Baer, add Steve Hornady, add Dave Kiff, add Steve Satern (premium barrel maker), add Marty ballistician and pressure testing and setter at Accurate Powder. Just noticed you're from Kalipornia, guess that explains it. Enjoy your anti-gun state dude. I'll be talking to Lothar Walther today and mention what you said....and on you last word thing FU Buddy!!!

Well, I've been away for a few days and it looks like things didn't get better.
Honestly, I appreciate all the input here; the history of a cartridge, gun design or other gun minutia always has a welcome stop in my depleting memory bank of a brain.

Honestly, I'm hoping that when all is said and done, none of the apparent hostilities really matter since we all seem to be fond of the same cartridge, no matter how it actually came about.
Since my earlier questions an posting of Quick Load charts never seemed to get answered, I'll pose them again.
Isn't it desirable to have "some" powder leave the barrel unburned? 5%? Less?

Somebody mentioned the throat being designed to allow for an earlier pressure spike as being conducive to more accurate loads with a wider range of bullets. This kinda goes along with my idea of trying faster powders in the shorter barrel, but looking at the QL data for say Win. 748, that might not hold true.

Would it be worth while to form some large primer Grendel brass out of 7.62X39 cases?

Magnum primers? I already planned on using Fed. 205M because I have a crap-ton of them and I'm not loading as much 5.56mm as I used to.

A little "unburned powder".
LoL...
@227g of VV 20N29 (the old formula) behind 800g McMurdo custom machined solid bore-riders; RWS match grade primers to kick it off.

quote:

Originally posted by PJS50:
A little "unburned powder".
LoL...
@227g of VV 20N29 (the old formula) behind 800g McMurdo custom machined solid bore-riders; RWS match grade primers to kick it off.

Did that gentleman get a face tan from that? LOL

quote:

Originally posted by PJS50:
Well, I've been away for a few days and it looks like things didn't get better.
Honestly, I appreciate all the input here; the history of a cartridge, gun design or other gun minutia always has a welcome stop in my depleting memory bank of a brain.

Honestly, I'm hoping that when all is said and done, none of the apparent hostilities really matter since we all seem to be fond of the same cartridge, no matter how it actually came about.
Since my earlier questions an posting of Quick Load charts never seemed to get answered, I'll pose them again.
Isn't it desirable to have "some" powder leave the barrel unburned? 5%? Less?

Somebody mentioned the throat being designed to allow for an earlier pressure spike as being conducive to more accurate loads with a wider range of bullets. This kinda goes along with my idea of trying faster powders in the shorter barrel, but looking at the QL data for say Win. 748, that might not hold true.

Would it be worth while to form some large primer Grendel brass out of 7.62X39 cases?

Magnum primers? I already planned on using Fed. 205M because I have a crap-ton of them and I'm not loading as much 5.56mm as I used to.

There were several reasons. The main one was to keep pressures from spiking as the cartridge had the M16 bolt.

The double angle would prolong the build time of the pressure.

You do know that the first bolts were NATO 5.56 bolts with the bolt face remachined to open it up for the 6.5 Grendel case head size right?

Whether this leans to better accuracy is debatible and there are many fine shooting 6.5 Grendels out there without that throat.

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:
Did that gentleman get a face tan from that? LOL

No... It's only slightly warm! LoL...
That's me shooting my McBros action .50BMG match light gun (under 32.5#) at night.
Due to the large clamshell style muzzle brake on that one, it redirects a majority of the muzzle blast/pressure wave backward, but also way off to the sides. So, when viewed from the side like in that picture, one could easily think I'm being set on fire. In reality, even with a fully outstretched arm, I couldn't touch the fireball in that picture.
The old VV20N29 sure does burn nice and slow though. Great for 800grain projos out of the 32" tube. My personal best 5 shot group is 6-7/8", and I'm not even good at it!
Current 1000Y .50cal record for light guns like mine is 2.178” (5 shots). For heavy gun (maximum weight of 50#) the 5 shot record is 1.955".
Pretty good for a projo that weighs a little over 1/10th of a pound and remains supersonic out to @ 1.5 miles.

quote:

Originally posted by PJS50:

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:
Did that gentleman get a face tan from that? LOL

No... It's only slightly warm! LoL...
That's me shooting my McBros action .50BMG match light gun (under 32.5#) at night.
Due to the large clamshell style muzzle brake on that one, it redirects a majority of the muzzle blast/pressure wave backward, but also way off to the sides. So, when viewed from the side like in that picture, one could easily think I'm being set on fire. In reality, even with a fully outstretched arm, I couldn't touch the fireball in that picture.
The old VV20N29 sure does burn nice and slow though. Great for 800grain projos out of the 32" tube. My personal best 5 shot group is 6-7/8", and I'm not even good at it!
Current 1000Y .50cal record for light guns like mine is 2.178” (5 shots). For heavy gun (maximum weight of 50#) the 5 shot record is 1.955".
Pretty good for a projo that weighs a little over 1/10th of a pound and remains supersonic out to @ 1.5 miles.

That's impressive. I have a Ruger in 450 Bushmaster and it has a muzzle break on it. Well I shoot it I can feel the heat from the flash on my face! Of course it's no way near what you are shooting!!!

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:
He who posts last thinks he “wins.”. Others who carefully read the exchanges can decide for themselves.

Indeed I am very familiar with most of the names mentioned and know they choose not to understand the cartridge and the realities of quality control.

I have long ago given up on doing tit-for-tat ad-infinitum with fools who think they know things.

I will give vzerone the last post and the ‘satisfaction’ that goes with it.

Aah, so Arne Brennan the inventor of that cartridge hey choose not to understand the cartridge and the realities of quality control? Add Lothar Walther, add Les Baer, add Steve Hornady, add Dave Kiff, add Steve Satern (premium barrel maker), add Marty ballistician and pressure testing and setter at Accurate Powder. Just noticed you're from Kalipornia, guess that explains it. Enjoy your anti-gun state dude. I'll be talking to Lothar Walther today and mention what you said....and on you last word thing FU Buddy!!!

so someone doesn't agree with you so its FU? WOW. (shaking my head)

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:
He who posts last thinks he “wins.”. Others who carefully read the exchanges can decide for themselves.

Indeed I am very familiar with most of the names mentioned and know they choose not to understand the cartridge and the realities of quality control.

I have long ago given up on doing tit-for-tat ad-infinitum with fools who think they know things.

I will give vzerone the last post and the ‘satisfaction’ that goes with it.

Aah, so Arne Brennan the inventor of that cartridge hey choose not to understand the cartridge and the realities of quality control? Add Lothar Walther, add Les Baer, add Steve Hornady, add Dave Kiff, add Steve Satern (premium barrel maker), add Marty ballistician and pressure testing and setter at Accurate Powder. Just noticed you're from Kalipornia, guess that explains it. Enjoy your anti-gun state dude. I'll be talking to Lothar Walther today and mention what you said....and on you last word thing FU Buddy!!!

so someone doesn't agree with you so its FU? WOW. (shaking my head)

Oh back at huh John? What's the matter, one of the other posters and talking nice to one another and you don't like it because you tried to paint me as the bad guy? What happened to you and not getting the last word thing you posted about. Problem with guys like you is you don't want to accept the real facts about the 6.5 Grendel and the man that started Alexander Arms.

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:
He who posts last thinks he “wins.”. Others who carefully read the exchanges can decide for themselves.

Indeed I am very familiar with most of the names mentioned and know they choose not to understand the cartridge and the realities of quality control.

I have long ago given up on doing tit-for-tat ad-infinitum with fools who think they know things.

I will give vzerone the last post and the ‘satisfaction’ that goes with it.

Aah, so Arne Brennan the inventor of that cartridge hey choose not to understand the cartridge and the realities of quality control? Add Lothar Walther, add Les Baer, add Steve Hornady, add Dave Kiff, add Steve Satern (premium barrel maker), add Marty ballistician and pressure testing and setter at Accurate Powder. Just noticed you're from Kalipornia, guess that explains it. Enjoy your anti-gun state dude. I'll be talking to Lothar Walther today and mention what you said....and on you last word thing FU Buddy!!!

so someone doesn't agree with you so its FU? WOW. (shaking my head)

Oh back at huh John? What's the matter, one of the other posters and talking nice to one another and you don't like it because you tried to paint me as the bad guy? What happened to you and not getting the last word thing you posted about. Problem with guys like you is you don't want to accept the real facts about the 6.5 Grendel and the man that started Alexander Arms.

what the hell are you talking about?? my sole comment was that ur attitude is, as stated by you, FU to someone that doesn't agree with you. i have absolutely no knowledge the 6.5 grendel or alexander arms etc etc. my comment was directed solely at your low class response to to someone that has a difference of opinion with you. you need help.

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:

quote:

Originally posted by JASmith:
He who posts last thinks he “wins.”. Others who carefully read the exchanges can decide for themselves.

Indeed I am very familiar with most of the names mentioned and know they choose not to understand the cartridge and the realities of quality control.

I have long ago given up on doing tit-for-tat ad-infinitum with fools who think they know things.

I will give vzerone the last post and the ‘satisfaction’ that goes with it.

Aah, so Arne Brennan the inventor of that cartridge hey choose not to understand the cartridge and the realities of quality control? Add Lothar Walther, add Les Baer, add Steve Hornady, add Dave Kiff, add Steve Satern (premium barrel maker), add Marty ballistician and pressure testing and setter at Accurate Powder. Just noticed you're from Kalipornia, guess that explains it. Enjoy your anti-gun state dude. I'll be talking to Lothar Walther today and mention what you said....and on you last word thing FU Buddy!!!

so someone doesn't agree with you so its FU? WOW. (shaking my head)

Oh back at huh John? What's the matter, one of the other posters and talking nice to one another and you don't like it because you tried to paint me as the bad guy? What happened to you and not getting the last word thing you posted about. Problem with guys like you is you don't want to accept the real facts about the 6.5 Grendel and the man that started Alexander Arms.

what the hell are you talking about?? my sole comment was that ur attitude is, as stated by you, FU to someone that doesn't agree with you. i have absolutely no knowledge the 6.5 grendel or alexander arms etc etc. my comment was directed solely at your low class response to to someone that has a difference of opinion with you. you need help.

John, listen, I apologize. I got you mixed up with someone else. A Biden moment if you will. Again..sorry.

ok.

quote:

Originally posted by john c.:
ok.

Thanks John

Well, I finally got to the range last weekend to do some barrel break-in on the Grendel build.
After a dozen break-in rounds using the Wolf steel cased stuff, I pulled out some of the Hornady factory loaded 123g BTHP that I bought a can of 200 of.
Here is a pic of a 5 shot 50 yard group with that ammo:


I can't wait to get started on some hand loads if this is what the factory loads will do!

Very nice target!

Looking forward to seeing more!

You're on your way PJS50. Looking forward to seeing your handload groups.

Don't know how many of you shoot cast, but I do and was shooting my 6.5 Grendel with two cast bullets Wednesday. One is a 140 grain Saeco and the other is called the 6.5 Kurtz designed by a good friend of mine and it weighs in at 135 grains. Of course you can't push these weighs at the same velocities of the 123 jacketes, but you can move them along pretty decent. With the 6.5 Kurtz I got a tad over a 1/2 inch group and the Saeco went 1 inch and these are at 100 yards. I can get in a lot of shooting with cast from my Grendel.

quote:

Originally posted by vzerone:
You're on your way PJS50. Looking forward to seeing your handload groups.

Don't know how many of you shoot cast, but I do and was shooting my 6.5 Grendel with two cast bullets Wednesday. One is a 140 grain Saeco and the other is called the 6.5 Kurtz designed by a good friend of mine and it weighs in at 135 grains. Of course you can't push these weighs at the same velocities of the 123 jacketes, but you can move them along pretty decent. With the 6.5 Kurtz I got a tad over a 1/2 inch group and the Saeco went 1 inch and these are at 100 yards. I can get in a lot of shooting with cast from my Grendel.

I shoot cast bullets in many of my handguns, especially the .454Casull and lately the 10mm I'm tuning for deer hunting, but I've never loaded any rifle rounds with cast projos.

I'm assuming you are using a harder alloy projo?
You using gas checks as well?
What is you velocity limit with cast projos in 6.5G?
Would using gas checks allow you to push them at full speed like it does in my handguns?