Have you ever had a rifle/cartridge that just didn't quite live up to the dream of book standards? It could be velocity, could be that the perfect bullet isn't delivering accuracy, could be the gun just doesn't fit right.

I'm having one of "those" moments. And I know this whole conversation is an exercise in "Synthetic Frippery". Mental masturbation by any other language.

I bought a Rem. AWR in 7mm SAUM from Biebs here (*GREAT guy to deal with btw!). It fit the bit for what I want perfectly: just over 6#, no scope, a bit more power than a 7-08/Mauser, a slightly heavier bbl than the pencil bbl on my Bob. Synthetic, coated stainless, etc. Yeah, abuse gun perfect for Alaska.

And the promise of a 140 gr. bullet at 3150 was just too much to pass on.

Out to the range with it, set up the Chrony and fire off a box of Rem. 140 corelocks and 160 partition factory stuff. I get 3,050 and 2,950 respectively. Primers show some definite flatening and a smidge of crater. Oh man, this stuff is loaded HOT. You can just feel the pressure wave off the muzzle when firing.

I'm about 100 fps off with factory loads on an 80 degree day.

I don't think much of it, just break out the reloading manuals and get busy with powders. H4350, H4831sc, Hunter, RL19...gonna load this for mono-metal bullets only. 139 GMX, 140 & 150 E-Tips, 150 TTSX's.

200 rounds later (*5 reloads on each case) I've lost two cases at the range and split the neck on one. I'm down to 37 pieces of brass on this experiment. (I've got plenty more...just want to see wear patterns on a small batch.)

My discoveries:

1. 139 GMX's can be driven at 3,025 with less pressure sign than factory 140's. I get about 1" accuracy.

2. 140 E-Tips go 2925 with H4381 and exhibit near telepathic accuracy. Sub 1" is normal. No pressure signs.

3. 150 E-Tips go 2900 (!) with RL19 and deliver 1/2-3/4" 5-shot groups. No pressure signs on the primers.

4. 150 TTSX's go 2950 - 1.25-1.5" 10-shot group. Again, no pressure signs.

So, TTSX's and GMX's deliver 25-50 fps over the E-Tips, but E-tips deliver the best accuracy.

So I've settled on a 150 E-Tip at 2,900 fps knowing that this load will absolutely deliver on game. But the book...the damn book says as much as 3,050...

And I'm puzzled: I'm not even close to achieving the "dream". The dream in this case was 3150 with a 140 bullet.

I'm at 2900 with a 150.

And so the brain spins. I compare charts, powders, burn rates. I check the necks and trim them. I make adjustment for the 12 feet away the chrono is. I put my lab coat on and burn the midnight oil...

In the end, the trajectory difference is 3/4" at 300 yards and 50 FPE...at 500 yards it's a bit more but I'm not going to take a shot at that distance anyway.

"Synthetic Frippery" is what a friend of mine called it. Self created garbage that just spins the brain...

Maybe a different primer will make the difference...

quote:

Synthetic Frippery" is what a friend of mine called it. Self created garbage that just spins the brain...

Maybe a different primer will make the difference

I love this one
" should of got a ____ With a 28" Barrel"
maybe you need a bigger rifle ?
HAHA!!

Aw, c'mon! You've been shooting a long time. Surely this has happened at least 5 times before? Si?

The cure is simple. Carry the rifle in the field 2 or 3 hunting seasons. Kill a few animals with it. It'll become an old friend and you won't part with it for love nor money.

(And, consider burning, trading, or selling that book or putting it on a farther part of the shelf.)

How long's your barrel?

With a 26" barrel you should be able to top 3150 with a 140gr bullet

22" bbl. Having said that, book values are based on a24" bbl (for whatever that means...).

One of the most important things in life is to
fire a bullet at 3000 fps instead of 2950 fps.
Drive the truck 20 yards closer.

All of them I don't know how they get the factory or reloading book vel.

But most of all mine have had lower vel.

Some one once said the best way to ruin a good shooting/ hunting rifle is ahoot it over a chrony.

I can usually meet or beat book specs. But I like long barrels, and look for the optimum bullet/powder match.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

Some one once said the best way to ruin a good shooting/ hunting rifle is ahoot it over a chrony.

That right there is Wisdom for the ages...

I have a 26" 300 H&H that's regularly 50-75fps over book. And I have a .375 H&H with a 20" bbl that seems to outperform its barrel length.

But danged if that 7mm SAUM isn't buggin! LOL!

Nosler manual numbers are often ambitious. Since the velocity of the 150s is so close to the 140s, I'd stick with the 150s and go forth and kill things.

LWD

I've generally been able to get close to or above book velocities but except for a few exceptions, that wasn't where I found the best accuracy. The rifle that buggs me is a 270 Weatherby. I can't get the velocity within 150fps of book velocity, but with 150gr TSX's it will shoot consistently well under 1" at 100yds. Some barrels are fast and some are just slow.

Yes, the first gun I bought after graduating from college. Remington 700 Mountain rifle circa 1992. I have carried that rifle all over and hunted everything with it. It was my only rifle for quite a few years. So it was asked to do everything.

I learned to reload with that rifle. It has had 90-160gr bullets run through it. I don't know how many powders, and every brand of primer and brass. It has had the whole spectrum of pressures run through. It was the first rifle I got comfortable shooting because of all the range and hunting time spent using it. My wife, nephews, sons, and friends have used it successfully.

Then I bought a chronograph, it consistently clocks 100-150fps slower than book values. It has never pushed a 130gr bullet over 3000 fps, much less 3100. I can not get much over 3125fps with a 110gr TSX. I quit trying to chase velocity and took it hunting.

That rifle has been borrowed, loaned, gone everywhere done everything. It has simply killed everything it has been pointed at.

But....the barrel is shot out. It no longer even holds consistent 2" groups anymore. In fact, I am thrilled when I get an honest 1.5" group. I had numerous loads that were consistent 3/4" performers and even one load that was an honest 0.5". Not bad for a skinny barrel, tupperware, non bedded stock. The last time I ran a bore scope through the barrel, there is an awful lot of honeycombing, and throat erosion.

So my dilmna is this. Do I keep the old friend as is? Or should I semi-retire it. Should I refurbish with a new barrel and slip it into a Ti take-off stock (already purchased) complete with pillars and bedding? Do I get the bolt handle reshaped since I performed a kitchen table bubba job to get it to clear the extra low rings?

So Rnovi, I hope you can carry that rife all over, forget about the velocity, and it will serve you as well as mine has served me.

quote:

That rifle has been borrowed, loaned, gone everywhere done everything. It has simply killed everything it has been pointed at.

Sounds like a good rifle.

I wouls just rebarrel it with a good barrel and let it go hunting again.

Synthetic frippery, I love it. How much time have I spent chasing a gnats ass when really all I needed was minute of whitetail? I know what you are talking about, for sure. The last five years though, I have spent alot less time seeking perfection in my loads, and spent alot more time seeking perfection (unachievable) in my own shooting. Seems to me time much more well spent. Wish I woulda figured that out alot earlier. But then again, I did learn alot, so I guess in the end it is a wash.

Most important thing I learned though, is when a gun is trying to tell you something, you need to listen.

It's not the manual, or the factory, that's giving you the lower velocities, it's YOUR barrel/chamber.

I've seen a 275fps increase in velocity after shortening the barrel by 1" at the breach and cutting a new chamber. BTW, that rifle now matches the velocities stated in several manuals with multiple powders.

IOW expecting a slophole factory chamber/throat, in a god knows what diameter barrel, to match the velocities given by a minimum chamber/throat that's been cut into a minimum spec diameter barrel is a fools pursuit.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

Some one once said the best way to ruin a good shooting/ hunting rifle is ahoot it over a chrony.

I feel guilty getting chuckles over someone else's misery. Its like rejection when asking a girl out.. "Then reality sets in"!!

Reminds me of the 8X57 that broke my heart..

SD Hunter. I think your old friend has earned a new barrel. Someone like Lawton probably already has the proper specs in it's contour cutter if you want to keep the original appearance.

Thanks for all the encouragement. A new barrel it is, but not until after hunting season!

WOW, I think I'd be happy with the telepathic accuracy, or the 1/2-3/4" 5-shot groups, rather than reaching some advertised inflated bench mark which may not be the most accurate loading in my rifle.

Jack, well, right. That's kinda the point really. 'Cept I think I just nutty enough to keep playing. By the time I actually figure out the "perfect combo" I'll probably have burned the barrel out by then.

Ran out to the 300 yard range today, it was 41 degrees, wind blowing and swirling a bit, and a nice drizzly wet going on.

I put the heavy winter gloves on to get a few rounds of practice in "normal hunting conditions".

Damned if the rifle didn't put 3 into 2.5" at 300 yards.

I'm also delighted to report that my 150 E-Tip load prints same POI as the 160 gr. Factory Partition load, my 150 TTSX load and my 140gr. E-Tip load.

Factory loads though - damn, those things sure are running high pressures. Bolt lift was stiff (plus ejector marks) even at 41 degrees! Kinda makes me feel good about the (lack of) pressure in my handloads.

PS: Yeah, it's all Frippery.