I have a marlin 444s....IMR 3031 powder and 265 gr hornay fp
I searched everywhere I could. found that my starting load was about 50 and max is 53. this is way too high I started at 46 and am getting compressed loads. what should my starting load be and my COL.

try data using 4227, 4759... or even some of the load data for the 44 Rem Mag...

powders with the burn rate of slower than 4198, and you are dealing with compressed loads.. which suck...

I've had a 444 since 1981...I have worked with compressed loads, like ONCE.. and that was enough...

yeah, I give up some potential max velocity loss, but since 44 cal bullets aren't overly aerodynamic, the max point blank range isn't overly significant...

eh? ( added that canuck translation, since you are from the north side of the border.. )

"eh" very funny. But you're barking up the wrong tree. not this canuck. But I hear it all the time

I prefer the American version.."huh" much more sofisticated

So imr 4227 in a 444 marlin?
data says a load of 22.5gr in 44 rem mag will give velocity of 1425fps with 270gr bullet? how will this compare in a larger cased 444? Should I work my loads up from 22.5 or start higher?

h4198 looks like a good powder.

Crout,

It is the astute Canuck who points out to we Yanks, that we use HUH, almost as Canucks use EH? close but you Canucks still have us beat.. EH?

anyway...

first I'd recommend switching to the XTPs... get ahold of some and try them out next to the 265 FN.. into some trees in the woods or so, and compare the results..

compressed loads in the 444 case.... suck!

as I said, SR 4759 is the powder I prefer the most...

however 5744, IMR 4227 and burn rates that are faster than that work excellent...

SR 4756 is a real accurate powder in my 444...

start out with just about ANY load out of a 44 Mag.. it is safe to start with a MAX 44 Mag load in the 444 case...

just pick a powder and work up...

my preferences in mine, are the 300 grain XTP with an MV of about 1750 fps to 1800 fps...I zero it at 3.5 inches high at 100 yds, and it is easily a 150 yd round with no sight compensation necessary...

that is all I ask of it...

in loading the 444 all these years.. I've noticed, to get velocity faster than say 1800 fps with the 265 or 300 grain bullet.. the recoil ramps up significantly for each 100 fps you get... but the aerodynamic (or lack of it)... doesn't stretch my point blank range significantly at all...

just not worth the trade off in my book...Huh?

quote:

Originally posted by crout:
I have a marlin 444s....IMR 3031 powder and 265 gr hornay fp
I searched everywhere I could. found that my starting load was about 50 and max is 53. this is way too high I started at 46 and am getting compressed loads. what should my starting load be and my COL.

I've found som data.
For IMR 3031 powder max bullet weight is in my book 240 grains. The Max load is then 54,5 grains.
But there are other powders that might be better like Vithavuori N130. Min load with 265 grain bullet is 46,2 grains max is 51,3 grains. COL is 2,5 inches.
If you want less powder in your shell you may also try Vithavuori N120. It will give the same velocity. Minimum load 43,3 grains and max 48,1 grain. Speed is 2320 fps...

Data is from Richards Lees reloading book from 1996

When I lived in Alberta and Saskatchewan, I owned three different Marlin .444s mounted with the old steel K-3 Weaver scopes. All were the 24" barreled, straight stocked models.

All shot MOA 5-round 100 yard groups with 53 grains of IMR 3031 and the Hornady 265 grain bullet crimped in place. That is still my standard load for my current .444 Marlin.

There are lots of other good loads around too, but there are no flies on that one either.

thanks for all the info everyone. I think I will get me some sr 4759 and work up some loads with the 265gr and some 300gr xtp's.

unfortunately my 3031 is giving me compressed loads at 47gr??? so I won't be using that again anytime soon. too scarry for me?

as far as using n120 powder..too rich for my blood. pretty expesive to buy in canada.

now i just need to find some inexpensive optics.

Just out of curiosity, why do compressed extruded powder loads scare you? Several of the loading books I have list compressed loads (and note that they are compressed) as part of their regular fare. I wouldn't use compressed ball powders, but there is a world of difference between them and "stick" powders.

You can bet your boots the companies publishing loading manuals have not found them to be dangerous, or they wouldn't be listing them in their manuals...their lawyers wouldn't allow it.

Also, mild compressed loads can often benefit from the consistent placement of powder which that creates.

If you just can't bring yourself to try compressed loads, then try a load using the same powder, but at a weight of charge which just reaches the bottom of the bullet.

The .444 isn't designed to be a race horse anyway. If you find a good accurate load with a case full of powder, use it and go hunting.

compressed loads don't scare me it's the fact that 48gr of (my)imr3031 is giving me compressed loads. 50gr was so compressed I couldn't seat my bullet in far enough to it's COL.

I actually started my loads at 43gr up to 49gr but nothing accurate enough to sing about.

Okay, now I understand. Lack of suitable accuracy is always a good reason in my book.

I wonder why your brass is so scrimpy in capacity? Is it standard Remington fare, or is it made by someone else? My Remington brass, which is now as much as 40 years old and still going strong, swallows 53 grains of 3031 and that same bullet with no problems. It is compressed, but that is no sweat in straight-walled cases. (Assuming one is using loads not exceeding those which have been lab-tested and recommended by powder, bullet, or firearms companies.)

The bullet is held in place by a good stiff roll crimp into the bullet's crimping groove.
Just as a comment, if you are not aware of it...for use in tubular magazine rifles, those bullets should be crimped in place with ANY powder load, just to forestall any possibility of the bullets being moved farther into or out of the cases by recoil.

I assume you already know that. Some folks, who shoot mostly from the bench sometimes skip the crimping step because they don't fill the magazine. And, if they don't crimp, they sometimes appear to feel they don't have to trim the cases all to the same length as often, if at all. But I think hunters, especially if they are somewhere like out in the Alberta bush, should crimp theirs.

Good luck with your search for a load for your rifle. I think you will find the .444 not only very accurate for a lever gun, but very effective on game with any bullet between 265 and 290 grains. Some folk load heavier bullets, but Ken Waters has a very interesting article in his "Pet Loads" book on why bullets over 290 grains actually lose power in that round. If you haven't read it, you might give it a glance.

I notice HL has also suggested you try IMR-4198 powder. I think that is a most excellent suggestion. Again referring to Ken Waters, he found it gave superior performance with all weights of bullets in his .444s. I have found it very good in mine too.

AC

You may also try IMR 4198 or H335.

my brass is remington.
my guess is the powder itself is the problem. as far as powder i think some sr4759 powder will be fun to try..less powder same velocity sounds like my kind of powder.

4759 may work for you...I have no idea. It is one of my favorite powders for lead bullets from bottle-necked cartridges such as the .30-06, but it is not a powder I like very much for jacketed bullets. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but I think there are better powders available for getting optimal performance.

For instance, 56 grains of H-335 should very easily fit inside your cases, and deliver approximatly 1,950 fps at only 30,000 p.s.i. of pressure. (In actual fact, you can get up to about 59-60 grains of H-335 in there with the 265 grain bullet, but I wouldn't...pressures would be somewhat higher than I would want for longest brass life.

If you ever did decide to try bullets of about 300-310 grains weight, you could get over 1,800 fps from them with 50 grains of H-335, and still have pressures UNDER 30,000 psi.The down side to H-335 is that as the low pressures show, it is actually a wee tad too slow burning for the .444s very best performance with 265 gr. bullets, and has a muzzle blast which will roast the ears off of brass oxen.


As another option, 45 grains of IMR-4198 will give you over 2,050 fps with the 265 grain bullets at only 36,000 psi. (If you had a 26" barrel instead of one of the current shorter ones, you'd get right at 2,250 fps with the same load...lab tested figures, not theoretical.) All sides considered, I think if you ever try it you will find 4198 to be the best all-around powder in the .444 with any weight of bullet.


Anyway, I suspect you will find the rifle to be flexible enough (and fun enough) that over the years you'll try a lot of diferent things in it and find that out to about 225-250 yards it is a darned good "working bush rifle".