Tom, If you use Wilson and Neil Jones custom dies, no, runout is not something you're likely to worry about. Good equipment eliminates many of the problems faced by most handloaders. Unfortunately, most handloaders defer to RCBS, Redding, etc. standard die sets for most of their reloading procedures. Here is where runout can become an issue, and additional measures must be employed by the meticulous handloader to achieve the same results one would expect as normal from better quality dies.
However, if one is not in possession of a firearm capable of small groups to begin with, has not found that pet load yet, employs a less-than-rock-steady rest at the bench, or lacks proficient benchrest skills, incremental gains in accuracy may go relatively unnoticed, especially if wind doping ability adds another variable to the equation.
Posts: 529 | Location: Missouri | Registered: 31 January 2002
Hi everyone on this thread. Here is an idea. let us all go to the range and test if runout matters. I have seen this topic a lot, but nothing is ever concluded. I tested for my self and to me it matters. I believe that throat design and freebore ditto matters in the cocktail, so people can see different things in the test, but let's go check it out. We'll set parameters for the test and go for it. Besides it could be (maybe) the fist interatlantic shootingtest ever.
Just a thought
Posts: 389 | Location: Denmark | Registered: 05 May 2002
Wayne there are those who believe it makes a big difference and those that don't. I do try to get set up to make straight ammo but don't "kill myself" over it anymore. Over at "snipers hide" forums Dan Newberry just did a test with a 22.250. He shoots alot ....and shoots at 300 yds. He took a bag of .006"-.008" runnout ammo and a bag of low runnout ammo and shot a 2" group at 300 yds with NO difference in group roundness etc.(with each bag.) Over at the long range forum a while back a shooter wanted a cheap playtoy and picked up a NEF handi rifle in .223, put on a 10 power scope, and bought some walmart winchester ammo and posted his 1/2" groups. (I"m sure that wasn't super low concentric ammo!). If you're a bench rest shooter with great skill and a gun with great capabilities I'm sure you might be able to show me some "ever so slightly" opened up groups---but I'd like that test to be "blind" so the shooter can't know which ammo he's testing--the stuff with runnout or that without. MY opinions run with the group that runnout unless very extreme does little (very little) to change overall accuracy.
Posts: 2002 | Location: central wi | Registered: 13 September 2002
Thanks for the input folks! I have a "Trued" Rem. PSS .308 and the equipment for benchrest shooting. Average 5 shot group is < .300 @ 100. I have just bought a Hornady "Matchgrade" N/S die and was expecting better results. I wanted to know if there was a way to monkey with it to get less runout. I played with the F/L RCBS and got acceptable results. I just hated to know that I threw my money away on the Hornady.
Wayne I "think" I have that same die. I don't have the box it came in but it's a universal .308. I use it on my .308, 06 and 300 wby. May also try it on my 7.5 swiss. Although I've got great loaded ammo from my full length hornady dies I get real mediocre out of the universal die. Probably 1/3 will be .002" and under, 1/3 .002-.004 and the rest could be over that. I think you'd love a lee collet die for what you want to do. I attribute the performance of that hornady to it's being "universal". I still use it on new factory ammo to get the wrinkles out and love the eliptical expander to "neck" up smaller brass to .308. So for me it's got some usefullness.
Posts: 2002 | Location: central wi | Registered: 13 September 2002
.308 die, Eliptical expander with a bushing for the neck. The bushing I have reduces the O.D. of the neck to .334, the same O.D. I have on a F/L sized case. I use Laupa cases.
I hate to keep this thread going but I am a big fan of hornady full length dies. I own foresters, rcbs, lee, hornady, and redding. I know I'm in the minority here when I say I like the dies. NOW tell me again about the "match grade neck sizer". Is it a universal .308 caliber or was it specifically designed for 308 winchester? Does it have the eliptical expander ball on a stem or some sort of bushing only?
Posts: 2002 | Location: central wi | Registered: 13 September 2002