Can anyone relate actual velocities obtained from 20" barrels and 165 grain bullets with a 308 Winchester round? Looking to build a .308 20-22" barreled rifle and would like to use Failsafes exclusively. An FPS of 2700 would be nice, is it attainable ? Not that 2700 is different than 2650, but like buying a car, $34,999 sounds nicer than $35,000.

I have a 20" .308 in an A-bolt. I'm not using failsafes, but I get 2600 FPS on a 70 degree day using:



Lapua brass

42gr Varget

Hornady 165gr SST

WIN primer



I operated in the 2700 FPS range with 42gr of H4895 in the Lapua case during my initial load development, but don't recommend doing this. I go with 2600 FPS (2630 FPS @80 degrees) since I like to shoot my .308 quite alot, and want to continue shooting it with accuracy. Hornady lists 2600-2650 as a max pressure velocity.



You will get 2700 FPS with no problem with a 150gr SST, however.

Stutzen with 18" barrel.
Berdan cases, RWS 5620 primers, Reloader 15 #46 grs., Rem. 165 grs. CL bullet, O.A.L. 70 mm, Vel average 2.577 fts. Temp. 25�C
Other: Federal cases (boxer), Rem 9 1/2 primer, Reloader 15 #44 grs., Rem. 180 grs. B.P., O.A.L. 72,30 mm, Vel. average 2.494 fts. Temp. 16�C

Both reloads, safe in my rifle.
Best Regards.

I think a 22" barrel is optimum for the .308 Win. Factory velocities today are taken in 24" barrels for sporting ammo, and you can figure to lose about 20 - 25 feet per second for every inch you chop off that figure. So, if your ammo gives 2700 FPS in a 24" tube, it will be in the vicinity of 2600 in a 20" barrel. If you are handloading, you can make up some of this loss, I suspect. But how much I don't know. I used to get 2800 FPS from the 165-grain Nosler Partition handloaded with H380 in a pre-64 Win. M70 Featherweight with 22" barrel.

Jesse, I've had six 308's with 18.5,19,20,22 and 24" bbl's. 20" is, I believe, optimum for the 308. If I'm going to carry a 22" bbl. I'd sooner it have a 1/2" longer receiver and be a 30-06. IMHO, the 308's primary reason for existing is the carbine! I've found that you lose only around 35 fps going from 22 to 20." My last 308 carbine (19") would do 2,750 (ish) with any 165 grainer including the 165 X. Forget any other powder and go with RL15. I've found it gives the best velocity with accuracy.

Thanks, I posted at work, as my mind wanders into thinking guns and hunting every few seconds. I am a lefty, so things are going to be hard. I have a 700 VS short lefty I never use, so I am trying to muster up the balls to chop it up. The idea is to have a kind of " do everything" walkabout rifle. I thought this caliber/barrel length would make a nice, light weight package. When I looked at the Failsafe specs, for some reason, the BC is only about .314, while most other 165 grainers in different shapes are all over .400. I just thought the Failsafe would give a huge amount of latitude to the combination. Have several other calibers for longer shots, bigger critters, etc. Would be nice to just have one light weight, go-to rifle that I wouldn't have to think about shooting, and just do it.

Really want to stick to 165s to keep velocity up somewhat, maybe Barnes X or XLC, and the good old Partition would be better. The verdicts on the Bondeds are 50/50, and I don't think Nosler makes an Accubond in 165 yet.

Jesse. I have been using the .308 for both target and hunting for some time now. My hunting rig has a 22 inch tube and it likes 44 grains of Varget with a Sierra 165. In this rifle it will and does shoot 1/2 to 3/4 moa all of the time. Velocity is about 2750 +/- (averaged from 3 5 shot groups). I also use Varget for the competition rifle. Varget seems to not care about weather conditions much at all. Try it you may like the results.

I use 46 grs of varget with a 165 deep shok and get right at 2731fps from a 20 inch tube on my model 7. I also use 44gr varget with a 178 Amax in a 22 inch barrel and get right at 2675.

I have a Ruger .308 ultralight with 20" barrel, and 165 gr @ 2700 fps should be doable. When VV N-550 first came out, I followed some load data from a handloader article for 165 gr bullets. I was new to reloading and didn't pay proper head to the fact I wasn't using exactly the same componets the author did, as he didn't list them all, and I worked up to his max load. That max load caused my primers to fall out of the case and pushed the 165 gr to 2850 fps.

I no longer try to push guns to their max levels, preferring a bigger gun over straining a little one. I also found that factory rem 180 gr rn run 2600 fps even and group very tight, so I gave up on the 165's.

It seems Varget is the go to powder these days for the .308. What about AA2520? I was talked into trying this but, due to time constraints, don't want to waste a lot of time on load development only to find there is a better powder I should have used. Specifically, one thing I've heard about Varget other than it is very accurate is that it is NOT temperature sensitive. It suddenly occured to me that I'll be using thse loads in 100� + weather. How is AA2520 in this regard? Is what I've heard about Varget true?

For the record I'll likely be using 165 gr Partitions.

Thanks.

This is probably more of a FWIW thing than anything else, so take it in the vein it is intended.
One of my all time favoritte rifles is a Ruger 77 RSI. (The International with the Mannlicher style stock.) But, it happens to be about the fussiest rifle I have ever owned when it comes to loads. After trying out bullets of 150, 165 and 180 grains, the best result for most of my hunting was 49.0 gr. of W-760 with the 165 gr. Speer Hot-Core. When running that load over my chronograph, I found the velocity to be 2550 FPS from it's 18.5" barrel. (W-760 seems to be the only powder that will work in that gun. I said it was fussy.) I tried that same load in a Winchester M70 with a 22" barrel and the velocity was 2610 FPS, a difference of 60 FPS. That load has taken several deer from ranges of 35 feet to 250 yards, all one shot kills.
There was an article a few years back where representatives from the powder companies were asked what they thought the best powders were for the .308. Seems like most have already been mentioned. The Winchester rep said that W-748 was designed with the .308 in mind. I wish my Ruger would take to that one as I'd get substantially more velocity. I think I might try it in the M70 down the road. I doubt the Ruger will like it. BTW, I have three of these M77 RSI rifles and they're all fussy as hell. Somehow though, that W-760 load seems to work just fine in all three rifles. Go figure.
Paul B.

I have a Savage Varmint rifle and I am not sure where I got the load, but think I am using more than 46 of Varget for the 168 Sierra MK's ??? Varget is my all time favorite powder, and will be buying 8# of it soon. I am sure I can find something that will shoot accurately with it. I will probably wind up back with the standard and proven Partiton. Just toying with some of the "newer" technology is interesting. Having a bullet that will perform from any angle in a moderately powered cartridge could have many uses and still be shot often and well....that's the whole idea.

I had a problem with 2520 in 308. Increase in MV stopped long before I got to the full book load.

Boys, I've tried Varget... RL15 gave identical accuracy in my rifle but ran around 40 fps faster. Also, RL15 is what the military loads the 308 with and it is also "temperature stable" (milspec) like Varget... all in all it's an amazing powder. Try it you'll like it!

W-748 works great, I also like WC-846 and N-202

The lot-to-lot change between the same powders makes that 40 FPS meaningless.

I've tried several lots of Varget and RL15... there's a real difference. The Army uses RL15 for a reason...

I was only able to get 2680 or so, before my little 308 started opening it's groups.... that was totally MY gun, though, as it didn't seem to like anything like top loads...

jeffe