Hello: I have been shooting some Sierra 180 grain Sierra Gameking bullets in my 30/06 AI lately. I have had really amazing accuracy results with these bullets and am begining to think I might use these as an elk load. However, I do not know anything about the quality of this bullet except they shoot into the same hole one after the other.
Do these bullets penetrate and hold together on an animal like an elk? Boy, I sure hope so. These things are out shooting the Nosler's by far. I have nothing against the Nosler at all. If anybody has any information on this Sierra bullet I would appreciate some advice. Thank you very much, Jim L. rober1400c@mindspring.com

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Jim;,,I have had nothing but excellent results with Sierra for many years,,hold together really well,,and very accurate,,
as you have seen,,,hope this helps,,Roger 4

Although I love the shape and accuracy of the Sierra boat tail, I believe that the terminal performance of the regular base is more consistent. The .30 cal 180 is fine for elk.

So far, as long I put it in the correct spot, everything I have shot with the Sierra .308 boattail bullet has died with one shot, although sometimes a second shot was needed. Also, these bullets are usually as accurate, or more so, than match bullets.

I think that the 180gr sierra would do a good job on elk.

One of my favorite 30-06 deer bullets is the Sierra 165 Game King (HP design). Ive shot several deer with them. I've never recovered a bullet but have not seen any evidence of the bullet coming apart either.

Any bullet has its good points and its bad points.

Sierras have a reputation for excellent accuracy, and for occasionally flying apart on impact. I can't give you any real statistics, or evaluate the claims, but many hunters have posted bad experiences on large, thick skinned game like elk. It is possible that the combination of thick skin, plus hitting a bone, cause the bullet to fragment on impact, producing one really annoyed, but very much alive, elk.

The Hornady bullets, including boat tails have an "Interlock", which is an indentation in the jacket that holds the core in place. I've taken bullets apart, and it looks like it should improve weight retention. Hornady's jackets are thicker than Sierra's, which helps keep the bullet together. The bad news is that Hornady uses a nearly conical shape for the front end of the bullet, which puts more of the weight toward the rear, reducing case capacity. (In my browning 30-06, I have to seat Hornadys .1" deeper than Sierras... room for a surprising 1.5 grains less powder.) This translates to slightly smaller charges, and less muzzle velocity. To compound the problem the ballistic coefficient is not as good as Sierra or Speer, which robs downrange velocity. In .30 cal, Sierra and Speer flat bases have practically the same BC as Hornady boat tails. I have gotten very good accuracy from Hornady bullets.

Speer flat bases are made with molten lead, which solders itself to the jacket. Sierra and Hornady cores are not bonded to the jacket, and just fall out when you slice the bullet open. (So do Speer boat tails.) The Speer design should hold together well, as should the Hornady. However, Speer has two advantages over the Hornady, more weight forward, providing more case capacity and higher muzzle velocity, plus better BC. I'm just making my first Speer loads, so I don't have any accuracy data.

As far as I can tell, nobody makes a standard bullet that is inexpensive, has excellet BC, and some extra means of keeping the bullet together on impact. A lot of bullets seem to have two of the three. Like the man says, "Ya pays yer money, and ya takes your choice." My present theory is that Speers will be good for deer, pronghorn, and for sighting in and practice. For elk, I'm going with Partitions. We'll see how long my theory holds up in practice.

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is."

Well, my preference when using 180 gr. Sierra's is for the spitzer flat base. I have had the boattail shed cores on fair sized deer from a standard 30-06.
My only experience with the Speer Hot-Cores is with the 165 gr. Spitzer flat base. I shot a Mule deer facing me at about 250 yards. Bullet passed almost all the way through the deer, ending up against the rear leg bone, breaking that. Deer dropped like a rock, and the recovered bullet retained about 65 percent of it's weight.
I would imagine that if you put that Sierra bullet in the right place, you'll have elk meat. Even a Nosler or other premium bullet won't do the job if it goes in the wrong place. I doubt that the slightly higher velocity of the 30-06AI will make that much difference.
A bullet I do like in the 30-06 is the 200 gr. Speer SPFB Hot-Core. It's a bit slower, but it hits a lot harder. Accurate too, in my rifle. Haven't tried it on meat yet, but if it acts like the 165 gr bullet, it should work quite well. JMHO.
Paul B.

The only sierra bullets I have experience with have been the 180-gr. pro-hunter that is loaded in the Federal Classic .303 British loads. That bullet has held together for me on deer, elk, and black bear. It seems to work just fine and is accurate to boot.

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
The Safari Specialists
www.slatesafaris.com

Paul B...

Very interesting story on the penetration and "hold together". Whenever someone comes up with actual experience like that, it helps.

At the rate I consume elk ammo, I figure that I'm spending about $1.50 per year for the Partitions. I don't know if they really make a practically important difference or not, but it seems like they should. I sure wish someone had believable statistics on percent of each type bullet that exlode on impact, shed cores, etc. I don't think that happens too often, but who knows for sure?

JRSlate: I looked at that .303 Federal load with the Sierra, and noticed that the bullet had a crimping cannulure, unlike the Sierra 180s that I buy in the box. This made me wonder how similar are the two bullets really. Incidentally, the most accuate load I have found for my Enfield is with the 150gr. Sierras. I had just bought them on a lark, but this rifle loves them.

Denton. Here's a bit of experience on Nosler Partitions. I don't like them on close range shots.
I shot the largest Mule reed I have ever killed in my life (body weight). Ranges ran between 25 to 35 yards. Bullet, 180 gr. Nosler at 2700 FPS. Rifle? FN Mauser, 22" barrel.
First shot at 25 yards cut a deep groove on the top of the heart, without making a hole in the heart itself. Shot #2 was squarely through the lungs. Only made a small dime sized hole from entrance to exit. One small are about two inches into the lungs that was larger, but not by much. Shot #3 broke an antler, and shot # 4 was a total miss. (I think I was getting a bit shook up as I could not figure out why the deer hadn't dropped.) I forced myself to sttle down and broke his neck at about 35 yards with my last shot in the rifle.
My theory is this. I don't think the bullet had slowed down enough to work properly. That is, it went through the deer so fast that it didn't open up right. I believe that if I'd been using my regular deer load with the "softer" 180 gr. Sierras, the heart would have been shattered and that would have ended the affair.
This deer, BTW, weight 295 pounds, dressed, skinned, head removed, and the legs cut off at the knees. I had to cut him in half, just to get him to the truck. Looking at his teeth, I would imagine that he would not have made it through another winter. The rut was on, and his neck had not swollen up. His rack was, for his size, very spindly. His meat so tender, you could cut it with a fork.
I remember it well, although I shot him in the fall of 1978. Oh yes, before I forget. None of the bullets were recovered.
Paul B.

Paul B...

That brings up something that I have often wondered about: Do they make the jackets on lighter bullets thinner, assuming that they will be used on smaller, thinner skinned game?

A couple of years ago, my son in law borrowed my 30-06 to shoot a pronghorn. The only ammo I had to give him was tipped with 180 grain Hornadys, and the shot was 3/4 facing. The bullet went in through the left side of the neck, in front of the leg, and exited behind the right leg. It did an awesome amount of damage, and the pronghorn dropped like a rock. I think maybe that was just a bit too much gun and bullet for a little pronger.

295 less head and part of the legs is a huge deer. I can't imagine anything that size being tender, but it sure sounds like he was good eating.

Denton. Interesting post. How close was the antelope? That could have been a factor.
Yes, that deer was big. There were a few does in the area, but he was totally ignoring him. I guess his pencil ran out of lead. I thought Hornady bullets were supposed to hold togethere better than that. Oh well, you never know what a bullet will do once it hits meat. I hated the old Remington bronze point. One time it would blow upmlike a bomb, and the next time, just pencil on through. I haven't decided what I'm going to use on my cow elk hunt yet this year. That's the problem with having too many guns. What am I saying. One can never have too many guns. Right?
Paul B.

I have used Sierra bullets almost exclusively for 25 years and have never had one fail to expand properly. Have loaded for about every from 221 fireball to 458 win, but my standard hunting gun was a Ruger M77 in 7mag. My hunting partners only complaints about the gun, was that it wasted too much meat. I shot one mule deer that weighed about 275 at 25 yrds, flat on the shoulder, it destroyed the shoulder and had bloodshot from the neck to the tail. The following month I shot a spike bull elk at about the same distance behind the shoulder, didnh't touch a rib going in, but destroyed both lungs and came out through a rib on the other side. I loaded the same loads which were 160gr Sierra SBT with 66 grs H4831. On the extreme of both ends I shot a 250 lb blackbear in the chest facing dead on at 164 paces, the bullet broke bone entering and exited through the right rear leg bone, breaking it, and a coyote at 40yds, never touched a rib, going in or out and the coyote didn't go 10 feet. I have never recovered a bullet from this gun, because I have never had one stop inside an animal, but I would never consider the idea that Sierra bullet do not perform well. The only animal that travel over 20 yrds after being hit was the elk, and he went about 75 yrds, but was just as dead and I knew the hit was solid so didn't even try a second shot. I could have easily hit him at least two more times before he was out of sight, but my confidince in the bullet didn't even let that Idea come to mind.

The pronghorn was at 200 yards... broke the neck going in, scrambled the heart and lungs, broke two ribs going out. Pronghorn didn't feel a thing.

The Sierra hollow point bulets have thicker jackets and hold together very well on thick skinned game. I lean toward the most accurate reload my hunting rifle will deliver. The key to game getting is bullet placement. Those marginal shots at the longer distances require the very best accuracy to place the bullet where you want it to go. Logic is very important when choosing a hunting bullet. All bullets except a few on the market are made of copper jackets and lead core. Even those so called better premium bullets are made of the same stuff as the less expensive bullets. If you shoot a large whitetailed buck in the paunch with a 460 Weatherby at 25 yards using the finest premium bullet made, he will run off to die a slow death. No game animal will survive a well placed bullet through the heart lung area. My favorite game getting bullet is the .308 diameter 30 caliber bullet.

I have been reloading for about 15 years. I hunt elk and sheep for 3 months of every year. And have personally seen about 30 elk shot. I have also used Sierra game kings and Nosler solid base and their ballistic tip. I have found them to be an extremely accurate bullet. However I have had mixed results with them when it comes to hunting. If you shoot up close with them velocity is high and have seen them disintegrate. Mind you there was still about 1 foot of penetration. On the other hand I was also witness to where an elk was shot at approx 250 yards and the bullet hit the shoulder and actually bent over like some one had used two sets of pliers on it. The bullets in use were 200 gr sierra game kings from a .300 win. I know accuracy is very important, and everyone wants to have a load that will group 1/2 inch all day long. But if the bullet doesn't perform well on game then all is in vain. If you can get Barns X, Swift Aframes, or Nosler partitions to shoot 5 shots into 1 1/2 groups at 100 yards you have an excellent hunting load.When it comes to elk they are a big animal with big bones. There is a reason that Barns X, a - frames and partitions cost twice as much as sierras, hornadys and Ballistic tips. They are a better hunting bullet. I am not trying to kaka the others, as quite often they are more accurate and for deer sized game they may be alright.That my opinion any way. But shoot what you feel most comfortable with. You will find out through experience if you like them or not.

Have Fun

Being able to put all your shots in the same hole is an impressive bench rest feat, but I would rather have a bullet that will hold together 100% of the time instead. As long as your rifle will shoot inch and a half groups thats all one needs for 95% of hunting situations. Field shooting is not benchrest shooting.
I have shot a few elk with GameKings the 300 grain .375's and they hold together maybe 50% of the time and squirt the cores out the rest of the time. BUT , probably due to the big bullet, they kill like all get out. I use nearly any bullet (other than match bullets) on deer or antelope, but really like the extra insurance that a premium gives you on the big stuff. The cost difference between a stnadard and a premium is really negligible when you look at all your other hunting expenses.

FN