When Lapua re-introduced their "match grade" .223 brass, there was a tacit admission that they messed up some earlier lots (sourced from Remington, no doubt). That is a topic below by BISCUT.

My question is how does the Hornady .223 match brass product compare to the present day .223 Lapua match brass?

Thanks.

Anybody?

I am interested in this as well.

ain't you guys ever heard of lake city match

Well, I've never shot Hornady so I can't compare.

BUT,

a Buddy gave me 60 new Lapua .223 Match and they shot better than anything I've ever loaded prior (F-C brass & nickeled, Remington, Winchester, Sako, RWS & PMC w/same loads) and that was in three .223 rifles; 1 Heavy Barrel and 2 Sporter Weights.

Dunno how Lapua did it but I'm too lazy to start measuring ....

"tacit admission" hmmm, news to me. Whether or not they outsources some of their brass mfg or not, one finds it hard to believe that they would yield their company standards. So many folks are so quick to find fault, either real or imagined.
I read Biscuit's post and I think a consensus was that the problem wasn't the brass but rather the brass holder. I had a similar problem with another brand of brass that cleared up when I changed shell holders.
My understanding is that they replaced some of their machinery and with the resulting tighter specs brought out the "match" headstamp. I've .223 Lapua brass with and without the "match" headstamp and the plain headstamp is better than anything else I've tried and the "match" stuff is even better.
I've no experience with Hornady brass but one would think the only way it could be better would be if it was hand sorted and prepped.

Any supplier usually manufactures to the customers requested product and quality standards. It also depends on what the customer is willing to pay, even a top supplier cannot manufacture quality products for peanuts money.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
ain't you guys ever heard of lake city match

Damn good stuff. I wasn't able to find any and a good deal on 500 same lot Lapua Match came about. This will be my first go with lapua 223. I've had great experiences with Lapua in 308 and 30-06.

For me it would also depend upon what you are shooting it in. If it's an AR (standard type, not tight chamber) then you may see no difference in accuracy from cheaper planeJane Rem or Win brass.

I went the match route because the rifle in question is a bolt gun w. a tighter chamber meant to shoot 60gr and up.

quote:

ain't you guys ever heard of lake city match

Thank you guys,

I just ordered a few hundred of each to run a statistical profile. Then I will have good shooters test it out.

It is optimized for "Wylde" chambered gas guns.

I have tried various lots of lake city primed (crimped) brass. They don't sell the good stuff, that is for sure. The match ammunition is fine, but I was asking about cases.

The crimp allows a cartridge to reach NATO spec. pressures. I have not found a primer "crimp in" tool for less than a $300,000.00 military type loading production line.

So, I believe I will be limited to SAAMI specs.

Such a cruel world, 'eh.

BTW, no company is perfect before buying a large (10,000 pieces) lot of anything shooting related, it is best to take a micrometer, internal bullet concentricity comparator or runnout measurement device. Do all that before plunking down the moola.

I don't even see this as an academic argument...

Lapua is better brass, even if Hornady brass was free..

Good point Seafire,

I am working up cartridges (case, bullet, primer, powder and scrupulous loading practices) with the hope of being able to sell them (the 006 FFL is only $30.00 - the state department permit is another $2,200.00, and insurance [due diligence] is another $200.00/month) commercially.

Soooo if High Master level shooters show a noticeable difference in total point and x count between Hornady and Lapua out of a Mark 12 Mod 1 with a decent quality barrel (White Oak Armament 18" SPR, medium heavy, Wylde chamber), well that is interesting.

If Master level shooters show a significant difference, well, its time to cough up the tariff for Lapua brass, and pass it on.

The target market is:

1. Police Departments (77grain HPBT w/cannelure for designated snipers and sharpshooters)

2. Master level and below competition shooters who don't have time to reload that weekend (again, 77grain, HPBT w/cannelure, etc.)

3. Varmint hunters who are too close to the big trip to reload (Nosler BT or Hornady red tip 50 grain bullets, good powder, appropriate primers and attention to detail with case prep, flash holes, primer pocket reaming, seating with a Wilson arbor die with micrometer type adjustment system).

This isn't even an academic argument, it is a commercial question.

The question is: Does anyone have experience using both Hornady and Lapua brass? If so, did you notice any or any significant difference in performance if all other variables were held as constants regarding powder, primer, bullet and reasonable care with handloading techniques.

Seafire, Thank you very much for focusing me on narrowing my question to a useable form.

LD

I rather gather the problem cases were federal...Lapua and Norma both got caught. Also the primers are too soft and the rounds often fire as you chamber them in some semi Auto's (like my Galil)

Easy to spot- the primers have a faint green nail varnish seal arround the primer. Norma and Lapua made (and Primed) brass either doesn't have sealed in primers or a clear varnish is used...

John ; I have both and as yet not enough reloads for a definitive opinion !.

I'm in agreement with Seafire as Lapua is top shelf , it's also TOP $$$ now !.

I snatched up Hornady match ammo just for the brass although I'm pleasantly surprised by the accuracy

at least in one of my AR'S and Bolt rifle .

First week of march I'll be testing out 250 rounds of each brand with various known accurate loads

in my weapons . I'll post targets with groups of # 16 rounds fired , #1 fouler # 15 for record ,

# 3 groups of 5 fired at 1- 1.5 minutes apart . Which is my std. testing procedure at 100 -200 -300

meters .

Thanks Ganyana,

That sounds right. Federal management got spanked pretty good at Lake City several years ago for that. They also quit selling Gold Medal brass because many people complained about how soft it was. Thank you for the way to sort them out.

Thanks for the help Doc. My Hornady brass should be here on Monday.

Several years ago, a retired Major from the New Jersey State Police contracted with Hornady to produce .223 ammo with the 75 grain HPBT/Varget combination for across the course competition. We called it "The Major's Ammunition". It shot better than any one less than a High Master could tell.

Norma brass does very well in bolt rifles, but gets pretty beat up in gas guns.

IMI brass beats up the guns.....

Thank you all.

Hornady brass has always been made by winchester,( unless they just recently changed,) although they are held to a little bit tighter inspection standards.

Kinda outa my ass here, but think about giving Silver State Armory a try. I'm going on comparison between 6.8spc in Hornady, Rem, and them. WOW what a difference. Theirs lasts forver. Pockets stay tight - hot loads to 12 loadings is common.

I havent used 308 or 5.56 yet but did ask how the brass would compare to Lapua. Was told -- and these guys arent full of crap -- that they believed their bras in both calibers would give Lapua a hell of a run for much lest costs.

I'm taking that to mean flash pockes would need deburring at a min. But thats just me.

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
Hornady brass has always been made by winchester,( unless they just recently changed,) although they are held to a little bit tighter inspection standards.

Not sure if you are correct -- but I have found WIN to be just as good if not better than H-Day brass. H-Day pockets get large on me w. hot loads before WIN bras does. BUT I feel H-Day necks last longer than WIN -- without annealing.

Silver State,

That is a good idea. I will order some of ther's as well. They certainly have the rep for 6.8SPC brass.

Thank you guys very much!

LD

I got stung along with many others on the great Lapua outsourcing scandal of late unlamented memory. I figure they learned their lesson and check more cloesly should they need to catch up with demmand. So far it appears to be true. Hornady has not, nor has Nosler and both are 100% outsourced apparently.

I checked with Silver State. They only have 6.8 SPC brass in stock right now.

They seem to have the right idea. Only make four or five types of brass, make it well and offer any type of quality bullet in their ammunition.

For now, I will check out the Hornady and Lapua side by side, and run the numbers. My gut tells me that I will likely be sticking with Lapua. Trust but verify, etc.

Now, if we could only talk Lapua into making 300 Win Mag brass again....

It might be the second week in March or a little longer Snowing like the Arctic circle here today !.

I'll get er done ASAP !.

Hi Doc,

Don not forget to try some TAC powder (by Ramshot/Western). It works well and doesn't cost much. It works best at full capacity (23.5 to 24.5 grains with 75 - 77 grain HPBT bullets). That is what Black Hills uses to make their 5.56 M262M1 cartridges.

It is raining cats and dogs here today. Idaho seems to be more Northwestern than Western these days.