Not really a 'reloading' question exactly, but I have two questions regarding my 9.3x62 ammo:

1) Recoil 'bashing': this was the second round in the magazine after 1 shot. It looks like there is something like the top edge of the magazine putting a 'dent' into the bullets. I have another one where some lead was shaved off and part of the jacket deformed. Is this the normal recoil bashing to expect?

Question 2: I live in Zambia where reloading is prohibitive. These are two of the factory loads I use: Fiocchi 285gr on the left and Prvi Partisan 286gr on the right.



Why does the Fiocchi have a so much smaller bullet? Or is it seated deeper in the case, meaning less powder?

Will the shorter Fiocchi's have fewer problems with the recoil bashing?

It is impossible to find anything about the Fiocchi's on the web, even on their website they don't list the 9.3x62 as one of the calibres they load, and they don't describe what sort of bullet they use.

NO it is not normal; looks like there might be a lip between the mag and receiver feel ramp. I was going to say send it to me and I will fix it, but since you are in Zambia, well, that's out. Open your bolt and see if you can feel a lip at the front top of the mag box where is meets the receiver. If so, grind it out. Smooth it out. As for your different bullets; realize that each maker makes their own design and they can vary; every one wants to be different. Will the shorter ones result in less bullet deformation? Only one way to find out; try some. How long were these in the mag? Just for 3 or 4 shots, or did you top off the mag and leave it in for 20 shots? If so, stop that.

Thanks DPCD, I think it is perhaps the top edge of the magazine 'box'. I thought it may scraping over it when feeding, but I fed some rounds slowly and they don't seem to touch. Also with the bolt closed the 2nd round doesn't seem to be in contact with the edge of the magazine, but I'll take some pictures in the light tomorrow and post them.

I hadn't noticed this before because when target shooting I shoot through the whole magazine then reload. Only saw it when removing the remaining bullets after having put down some animals.

On the bullet sizes: could bullets that different in size still be the same weight? Or am I missing something? I've never reloaded so don't know how much in the case is filled with powder, air or bullet.

Looks like Fiocchi is seated deeper in the case. 3.290" is the maximum length from here. Nosler Note the difference in the length of the 286 gr bullets between a solid (shorter) compared to a spitzer bullet. TESTED OACL * If you could set the bullet deeper into the Prvi Partisan case, you would be ok????

The PRVI bullet does not appear to be seated to the cannelure, could they have been in the magazine when it was being shot, and the bullets are moving forward under recoil? Possibly need to reseat and apply some crimp if that is the case. Is this a Mauser actioned rifle? if that is the case, the magazine is longer than the feed opening in the action and the feed ramp needs to be ground flush or you will have a jam when you need that the least. Dodge Plymouth Chrysler Desoto (DPCD) hit the nail on the head!

Thanks for the link.

I thought it must be down to a difference in seating depth... but, then, where does the powder go? Or is there usually room to spare?

Thanks Lee,

It's a Mauser action on a Voere 2155. I'll try photograph the magazine and feed ramp tomorrow. The Prvi still have about 5mm of space ahead of them when pushed up against the rear of the magazine, but it is a light rifle so there is quite some recoil. The bullets weren't slammed deeper into the case by it, it's just the asymmetrical dents that got me thinking.

If the neck tension on the case is insufficient and it appears that no crimp was applied, a light rifle with heavy recoil can have this problem. The bullet ,being the heaviest part of the cartridge, tries to remain stationary under recoil, while the case moves backwards. This makes it appear that the bullet pulled forward out of the neck. Many factory cartridges have a cannelure on the bullet so that crimp can be applied to help hold the bullet in place. Measure the overall length of the cartridge, and see if seating the bullet to the cannelure and crimping does not help. Rereading your first post, do you mean that reloading is illegal in Zambia, so that you don't have access to loading dies?

So, to clarify, the photo showing the two types of ammo has them all straight 'out of the box'. Also checked the ones that have the recoil damage- the bullet seating hasn't changed.

Reloading is illegal in Zambia yes, was supposed to be 'prohibited' not 'prohibitive'!

What is the OAL of each? Different bullet shapes different bullet weights for the same weight. Why the manufacture seated the bullets that way I have no clue.

Lee is correct with low neck tension a bullet can move. Not on new factory ammo. If they had moved under recoil I doubt all would be the same. As stated check the top of your mag box or bottom of the feed ramp. Looks like you are hitting it under recoil.

I use a lot of those Privi 9.3 bullets; that ring is not the actual crimp cannelure. It has two rings; not to fret there. The bullets didn't jump out. You have a mag issue like I said above. Check for that. and don't leave ammo in the mag whilst refilling the top round .And yes, bullets can be of very different shapes and still weigh the same.
And I am glad someone knows what dpcd means; that logo is on every part and bolt I use. (Dodge military truck parts, etc)

1970 GTX, 1969 Satellite 528 Hemi, 1970 Cuda... I am a Mopar man!

quote:

dpcd

Crap and here I'm old enough to remember Desoto

1958 went with my dad he test drove a Desoto came home with an Impala. Not a nice 56 or 57 but that butt ugly 58.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

dpcd

Crap and here I'm old enough to remember Desoto

1958 went with my dad he test drove a Desoto came home with an Impala. Not at nice 56 or 57 but that butt ugly 58.

Sigh . . . fins! 2-tone! Whitewalls!

Haha, I'm not going to pretend that I know what this topic has gone off onto...

But, what is OAL?

dpcd- I have recovered some PRVI bullets from target backstops and from an animal and the the core seems to separate from the jacket very easily. Have you noticed similar? Not sure what bullet is in the Fiocchi, but it says 'Bonded' on the box so I'm hoping they it's a better constructed bullet.

What is OAL? You will have to measure your ammo and see.
Privi bullets separating? I only use them on hogs so it doesn't matter; they go through them anyway. Do they kill what you shoot them into? I know they are a standard cup and core bullet, but I don't need fancy bullets for what I hunt.
The discussion from these old guys is their CARS. Mopar products (Chrysler used the dpcd logo on lots of parts from WW2 well into the 1970s, and I restore them; mostly Dodge military trucks, but I also have a 340 Barracuda).

quote:

But, what is OAL?

Over-All Length. Some call it COAL or Cartridge Over-All Length. Simply the total length of the loaded cartridge from base to bullet tip.

We were simply trying to see how those two different loaded rounds compared to the standard OAL of 3.291"

Yep we are sometimes like old women and get off on a gossip tangent.

So, got out a caliper and the COAL is:

Fiocchi: 79.5mm (3.13")

Prvi: 82.6mm (3.252")

Both are shorter than 'Standard', 3.291" (83.6mm)!

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Privi bullets separating? Do they kill what you shoot them into?

Yes, and they work just fine for me, but will be getting some Norma ammo for bigger/tougher things.

Thanks for the clarification on the cars... I have nothing to contribute on that one except that 'Dodge Barracuda' is a pretty cool name!

DODGE Barracuda ??? NOOOOOOOOOOO!
It is PLYMOUTH, not Dodge. Plymouth made them from 1964 to 1974.
Dodge made the Challenger, which is similar to the later Cudas, and they still make a Challenger, loosely based on the old ones.
You young guys kill me.
Oh, on the Overall Length; do not be concerned with anything you read on that; it means nothing. It is just a length for that maker and bullet, only. Your rifle chamber and your magazine might use a totally different length, but only if you load them yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

dpcd

Crap and here I'm old enough to remember Desoto

You ain't the only one....and Hudson, Rambler, Willys, Kaiser/Fraser, Nash, Studebaker and who could forget the Crosley's....good grief...

The COAL would seem to be ok. Like already said, the magazine may need adjustment.

To come back to the original question...

I did a bit of shooting today and determined that the shorter Fiocchi ammo also gets a dent put into the 2nd round under the bolt. Round 3 and 4 unaffected. This seems indeed from the recoil bumping it against the top rim of the magazine. I have taken some photos but will post these under the gunsmithing forum as I hope to be able to file this down.

I also figured out possibly how the Fiocchi can be so much shorter than the PPU for the same bullet weight... the cartridges have a lot more 'kick'. Perhaps it is a different 'hotter' powder that takes up less space, allowing the bullet to be seated deeper. Any thoughts?

the deeper seated bullet can increase pressure.
it uses up more air space in the case.
that isn't what is happening here though.
the two rounds could be loaded to the same pressure.
I would bet that the PPU rounds have less power [speed] to them.
the fiocchi's have a better constructed bullet too so will handle the higher velocity better.

as far as just the second round getting nicked.
my bet is that the bolt going over the top of the round is pushing it down and the nose is getting nicked on the magazine.

here is what I would do about it.......
nothing.
the nick affects nothing.
not the terminal performance.
not the ballistics.
it's just a nick in the exposed lead.

Thanks Lamar.

I think what you've said about the bolt pushing the bullet tip down onto the edge makes a lot of sense. It does mean though that pushing the bolt forward is also pushing the 2nd round down forward. I made sure to load them up against the back of the magazine, but it must be traveling forward. you've put me at ease somewhat as I was hesitant to take a file to my gun!

By the way, do you know what bullet Fiocchi load? It just says Bonded SP on the box. I dug some out of the termite mound backstop and they had held together very well, unlike the PPU bullets where the jacket and lead separate.