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I need a new press. I was looking at the Redding T-7 turret press and the Forster Co-ax presses. I'll be loading for .223, .22-250, .243WSSM, .264 Win Mag, 7mm RUM, and the .300 Win Mag. Any suggestions? | ||
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Thanks, Can you expand and tell me why it's the way to go? | |||
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Or a Lee Classic Cast. It'll do everything the more costly ones can do and do it just as well but at a LOT less cost. It was designed for precision casting and machining on CNC machines and it's as precise as a simple press can get. The body is cast steel of old railroad rails, not more brittle cast iron. It can handle cartridges up to 50BMG. It has a really good primer catcher system, works much like the CoAx. The operating lever is fully adjustable for side, angle, and length of pull which makes it quite flexible - easy to use - for both large and small cartridges. The Co-Ax is also a very good press and easy to use, with one exception, IMHO. I would NOT like to have my lever centered because it woould force me to stand further to the side of the press than I prefer. And I really don't think screwing dies in and out is all that much trouble so the slide in/out feature would mean little to me even IF all the new lock rings I would have to buy for my present dies were ten cents each. Which they are NOT!  Actually, at the price those lock rings sell for I'd have more money in the rings than in the press itself! | |||
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Forster co-ax.......what a pleasure. Reloading with RCBS now for very long time, this press has many very modern features, no shellholders required, E-Z die change to another caliber, like 5 seconds. r in s. | |||
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+1 I realy like mine. ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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http://forums.accuratereloadin...reqWords=Redding+t-7 http://forums.accuratereloadin...&forum_scope=2511043 ________________________ "Every country has the government it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre | |||
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love my forrester co-ax Mike Legistine actu? Quid scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I have a Redding T-7 that I like very much, but I typically reserve it for neck sizing and bullet seating. I just don't like to put excessive pressure on a turret press. If you load for a lot of calibers, buying a second or third turret allows you to keep lots of dies set up and ready. For full length sizing or case forming I have another press on my bench, an O-frame with compound linkage. The O-frame can be anyone's good press. Mine happens to be a Lyman Orange Crusher, but it could just as easily be an RCBS, Redding Boss or Ultramag, Lee cast, or the much-touted Forster. With the Forster, you'll have to retrofit all of your dies with the proper lock ring. This can get expensive if you load for a lot of different calibers. The Forster system (previously Bonanaza) works well, but the special locking rings are a drawback. | |||
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Another vote for the Forster Co-ax. Order a couple dozen locking rings, you'll be set (likely for life). -nosualc Beware the fury of an aroused democracy. -Ike | |||
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Thanks guys! | |||
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CO-AX | |||
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Not even close. | |||
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I currently have about 10 presses. One of them is a Foerster Co-Ax. It is a good press, but it is my least favourite of the ones I have. If I hadn't gotten it for $50, and if I hadn't read all the rave reviews many Co-Ax owners have posted, I wouldn't have bought it at all. I am not trying to put the press down. It does its work pretty much as well as any. It is just that I find it awkward for me personally to use, especially for heavy duty case-forming or full length resizing of cases which have expanded a lot (relatively speaking) when fired. I find something displeasing about having to pull the handle down and forward, particularly when I am seated. Either it doesn't have as good leverage as my other presses, or maybe it is because with the others I can use my body weight (235 lbs, 6'-3") to help PUSH their handles down, or something along that line. Anyway, I find standard "O" presses much handier from the point of how it feels to me to operate them. And honestly, I don't much like the Co-Ax shell holder system.The jaws move in and out (side-ways) to grab the cases. Most of the time they do that fine. But just often enough to really pxxx me off, one or the other of them will for some reason not quite go perfectly into position. Worst case scenario in sizing is that can cause a case to be damaged when the die is lowered onto it in imperfect alignment. Worst case scenario if that happens when seating bullets is that some powder gets spilled as the case is jostled. I also do not care nearly as much for the "feel" or lack of it when priming cases. And of course the special lock rings can actually add up to some noticeable expense, when you have over 140 sets of dies as I do....even if they are all just 2 die sets (which they are not), that still comes to needing some 280 other lock rings. So I still do most of my sizing and loading on an RCBS A-3 because it is more comfortable for me and because I can use the lock rings the dies come with. I know that won't be a popular view, but it is my honest experience. | |||
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Thanks AC I read in the blurb about the press that you don't have to have the Forster lock rings to use the press. Untrue? | |||
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Actually, it probably depends on the brand of dies you use. Most of mine definitely required the Foerster lock rings rather than the rings they came with. Others, I can just touch the ring a bit with a file, and it will fit right in. Some go right in with no problems at all. I have noted that round die lock rings vary in two ways. Some are thicker than others. Some are bigger around than others. I don't recall if any of mine wouldn't fit for BOTH reasons at once, but some definitely were too thick, while others definitely were too big in diameter. Some die rings are not even round, so that when put into the co-ax press, the indent balls don't touch in some places needed to hold the dies in correct position during use. It is also possible that in the last 5 or 6 years the die ring problem has been corrected by Foerster entirely. My Foerster is at least 7 or 8 years old....maybe double that. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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The product reviews on Midway's site for the Forster are pretty convincing http://www.midwayusa.com/viewP...er=265719&t=11082005 | |||
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Thanks for the links Winchester69 | |||
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Well, one thing for sure...if you buy one, you can make up your own mind whether you prefer it or not. My feeling is that it works okay, but I would rather use any one of my other presses. YMMV, and if you buy one I hope it works well for you. | |||
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I have both the Redding T-7 and a couple Bonanza presses. If you were loading for pistol rounds I'd go with the T-7, with pistol rounds it's convenient to be able to "short stroke" the ram and not have to move the ram all the way down on operations like seating pistol bullets. For loading rifle rounds IMHO you should go with the Bonanza press. The quick die change is fast and convenient, though I do prefer their lock rings and they can add up for a bunch of dies. The nicest thing about the Bonanza is that the shells float in the shell holder and will self center in the die as they go up. This press tends to load with less runout than with other presses. You do need to load from the side a bit but mount it right and this isn't really an issue. Set the press up at the right height and your sizing effort will see less than with many other presses. There are plenty of decent presses on the market but the Co-Ax is in many ways a step above the rest, especially for rifle cartridges. You should try one..............DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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I've successfully used Forster, Hornady, and the old, original RCBS cross-bolt lock rings with the Co-Ax. I've also heard that Lyman aftermarket rings (not the OEM set-screw rings that come with their dies) will also work on the Co-Ax. The ergonomics of the Co-Ax is a bit different than most conventional presses. I prefer it to a low-handled conventional press, but I also load standing up. I like the tubular grip handle, since it affords multiple hand locations for to suit the leverage needs of the task at hand. I usually start the stroke with my hand at the top of the yoke, sliding out along the handle for more leverage as the stroke advances, then choking back up on the handle as it is raised back up to the top. I tried the optional ball grip handle and did not like it as much. One of these days I'll probably trim a few inches off my tubular grip handle, but probably not make it as short as the ball grip. The shell holder, the die retention system and the handle/linkage of the Co-Ax press are all designed for accuracy and convenience. Andy | |||
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I know that is what they say, but I am a bit skeptical Take the shell holder...it involves two plates sliding in and out, one from each side. IF the force vectors and loads from each side are identical, and if the friction of each plate is the same, and if each plate is exactly the same dimension, then in theory the shell casing should be held exactly in the middle of the press. But that is a complex system, and there is always the chance for those things to not all happen. When they don't, then the casing may be somewhere off-center....maybe not enough to judge by eye, but some, none-the-less. Contrarily, the shell holders for standard presses are turned in/on a lathe-like machine where the stock is rotating as they are cut, and the slot for the shell casing is cut with a mill cutter which is easily centered also. Ditto the ram into/onto which the shell holder is mounted. That system is simple and uses a standard basic system for centering the work. Once cut, and placed in the ram the shell holder is either centered or it isn't, and that's not likely to deviate as there is no significant opportunity for loose play. It is true that if it is poorly centered during manufacture, it will always be out of centre when installed, but at least it will be relatively consistent and can be corrected by a careful workman. When it comes to the die mounting, the die installed into a Foerster slips sideways into a slot which has some play both up and down, side-to-side, and front to back. The only things holding it centered and in place is a pair of indent balls bearing against the lock ring on the die. Again there is always the chance of variable forces and dimensions, and most lock rings are not made nearly as carefully to dimensions as most threads are cut. Plus the bearing surface of threads in a 7/8-14 bored press or on a matching pair of dies is much longer than the threads in a lock ring, which helps to assure proper alignment. And again, threading a die into a matching threaded hole is much simpler than balancing forces on spring loaded balls against a lock ring whigh was not primarily designed as a precision spacer, in a slot which has to be a relatively loose fit to let the lock ring and die slide in and out of it. Bottom line to me is that more complex systems don't always promote greater accuracy of alignment, or keep it. When everything is made and works perfectly, complex systems do just great. But there is always more opportunity for something to go amiss too. Hence the "KISS" principle in engineering. Like I said earlier, I know that isn't going to be a popular view, but I think it one which needs to be considered when choosing any mechanical device. Having said all that, probably the most important thing is how well he likes whatever he buys. He isn't gonna use it for benchrest competition anyway so far as I know. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I care little about benchrest shooting myself.All loads I turn out with Forsters dies and press always are less than .oo1 average with proper case treatment.Never had the issues with the shell holders either.must be the luck of the draw for both of mine. It was a little different at first getting used to the center handle.Best of luck with your choice.I also have a Hornady LNL ap.Its ok for pistol stuff | |||
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Corbin's Press. | |||
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you don't need the forster rings on the dies. as far as loading pistol cases. all you need to do is to turn a new pin. the one that opens the shellholders. just make a longer one and the jaws open sooner and higher in the stroke so for .25 you have a short stroke press | |||
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Well, golly. I didn't know reloading a cartridge could get so complicated. Especially considering that I started out using a Lee Loader. Did somebody say K.I.S.S. I've got two RCBS presses and one Lee. I bought the Lee just to see what it was like because so many of the folks that think with their pocketbooks bad mouth Lee stuff. The Lee makes as good a stuff as the RCBS presses. What I like about all three of them is the dies and shell holders and such all interchange. You know, industry standard. They don't have you locked in to just buying their stuff. Or somewhere down the road yu can't find any of the reverse twidgets that you need to make their machine go. Like the germans say, "why make it simple, with a little more effort, you can make it complicated."  | |||
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+1 ________________________ "Every country has the government it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre | |||
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Thanks Gents! I ordered the Co-ax............. With points from Cabela's .... If I don't like it, I can always send it back! From all the positive opinions, I think I made a good choice. | |||
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Canuck, If you had a co-ax, or had read the instruction manual (available on their website for free download), you would understand that your critique of the co-ax shell holder is uninformed. The co-ax shell holder incorporates an adjustable, cone-tipped screw on the front of the ram/block that sets the minimum closure of the jaws, and maintains jaw centering in case of just the imbalance you wrote. The instructions direct the user to adjust this screw such that it just removes the lateral play, and no more. Note: this is not the jaw opening screw. As for the alignment of a threaded hole to the ram, a conventional press's threads have to be cut loose enough to account for tolerances in die threads, and allow easy removal and insertion of the die. Threaded holes are never considered precision locators in machinery for a reason. Now, a little play here might be a good thing (helping with the cartridge/die seeking a mutual alignment), except that when a die floats in the press threads, it does not just float laterally, it also imposes a tilt corresponding to the amount of lateral float. So, while the cartridge may be able to nudge the die in a conventional press into alignment laterally, the corresponding tilt will destroy any gains from such alignment. Forster lock rings are designed to be used in their press, to maintain the die perpendicular to the slot. With a cross bolt lock ring, the faces and OD can be squared and trued with the lock ring tightened on a threaded mandrel, ensuring the best possible alignment. Unfortunately, the same cannot be done for the threads on a conventional press. I have found Hornady rings to be just as square and true. If you had ever used a co-ax, you would also know that the ball-detent mechanism (one, not a pair) that keeps the die in the slot, when properly adjusted, does not contact the die or lock ring after the die is installed. It sits just past the edge of lock ring to keep the die from floating so far out that the cartridge cannot enter the die. Your comments on the merits of the KISS principle are sound. The co-ax foregoes the complexity and reversing lateral forces imposed by the compound leverage system in favor of a simple lever anchored directly to the press frame. The co-ax linkage induces lateral forces in one direction during the ram stroke, reversing only at top and bottom of the stroke. And because those lateral forces are applied between bearings above and below the shell holder, they are converted to pure lateral translation, absent the angular tilt from conventional linkages being cantilevered on the opposite end of the bearing from the cartridge. Even ignoring the tilt inherent in a conventional press ram, the same manufacturing tolerances applied to both presses will result in approximately half the lateral play (at the shell holder) in the co-ax ram compared to a conventional press ram. It is not the complexity of the co-ax that makes it a great press, it is the rather simple, but well-thought-out design. Andy | |||
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Whichever makes you happiest.... ________________________ "Every country has the government it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre | |||
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Hey BigJake, That's one hell of a knowledgeable post! You must be a mechanical engineer. Thanks for the input. If I need any help when I get the Co-ax (set up or whatever problem I may run into) I hope I can PM you.................... | |||
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I'm not a mechanical engineer etc. but I do own several presses. Simply put, for whatever reason the Co-Ax tends to load ammo with less runout than other presses. In addition to multiple presses I own several run-out guages and use them religiously. The Co-Ax is the easiest to setup for low runout, simple as that. Rcmaguila, congrats on your choice, good idea buying from where it's easy to return. I seriously doubt you will it's a great press. Please post your opinions here when you get to use it a bit, it would be interesting to hear them...........................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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Actually, If you read my post, you'd see I HAVE a co-ax press, which is still mounted on one of my loding benches, but seldom used. I also have read the instructions. I wrote based on my experiences, not on theory. It is possibly worth saying that some people believe in "floating, self-alignment", whereas others do not. I don't prefer letting float determine the alignment. That's why I don't let both the barrel AND reamer float when chambering either. (That, and the fact the barrel has to be gripped in order to turn it if held in the headstock.) I know that is not a perfect parallel, but it may make the point. I will also grant you that threads can be made sloppily, but they don't "need" to be. I make some of my own die bodies (and dies) just so I can minimize thread looseness, and insure a centered-cut die, but that doesn't change the principle. I do know for sure that people either do or don't feel the co-ax advantageous, so I'll leave the discussion at that. There is no challenging beliefs, either way. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I am an electrical engineer, not mechanical. However I've been around mechanical product design and machining equipment most of my career. The front, conical tipped screw on the co-ax is used to center the closure of the jaws. It is threaded into the shell holder block, and does not move other than when being adjusted. The jaw-opening screw is behind the spent primer tube, and threaded into the frame, such that when the shell holder block is lowered, it protrudes through a hole in the block and opens the shell holder jaws. The latest co-ax design may have omitted the jaw-centering screw; it is visible in the picture on the front of the current instructions on their website, but while there is a call-out leader for it on the parts diagram, there is no call-out nomenclature. My co-ax (a few years old) has it, and its adjustment is described in the instructions that came with my press. Even if it has been omitted, the lateral float afforded by the die slot is adequate to cover any misalignment of the shell holder jaws. Furthermore, the fact that the die floats laterally renders the concentricity of the threads in the lock ring moot, so long it is close enough that the float can still allow the die to center on the cartridge. The threads still must be square to the lock ring faces, which they have been in my experience with both Hornady, Forster and original RCBS cross-bolt lock rings. A conventional compound leverage press handle is most certainly not anchored to the press frame. It pivots between the bottom of the ram and the linkage arms which themselves pivot on the press frame. As such, any lateral force applied to the lever handle by the operator is constrained by the bottom of the ram, not the press frame. Due to the inversion of the handle/toggle during the stroke, that lateral force reverses during the stroke, as well as at both ends of the ram stroke. The reversal of lateral force translates to reversal of lateral offset on the ram. The mechanical advantage (which determines ease of actuation) of any press is simply the ratio of the incremental distance traveled by the handle to that traveled by the ram, and is independent of whether the lever system is compound or simple. The mechanical advantage changes based on design and position within the stroke, and varies differently for compound and simple leverage presses. Size and weight of the ram has absolutely nothing to do with mechanical advantage. Andy | |||
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The Forster Co-Ax is simply an outstanding single stage press. Dies change out in seconds, depriming is clean and easy, the priming station will seat your primers perfectly everytime. It gives very consistent concentricity on everything I reload for. I can't say enough about this press. Ken.... "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so. " - Ronald Reagan | |||
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I set the press up last evening and sized 200 .300 WMag cases. What an easy press to use, effortless. I like the shell holder system. Is the die supposed to turn in the slot on the lock ring or do I need to tighten the allen screw to hold it in tighter? The instructions said to not over-tighten so the die can float. I'm not sure how much play it should have. | |||
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It's intended that the dies be free floating so the cases can enter free from any outside forces. The Co-Ax's excellant system of die holding sorta puts the lie to those who believe dies should be locked down with pliers or a wrench, don't it? | |||
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