Howdy,

As I read through DonMartin29's post "load development, and what to do first" an idea struck me. After I got up off of the floor from the blow, I realized that it would be a very good idea for each of us who have considerable experience to take a few minutes and write down our ENTIRE technique in working up loads. Green788 has a technique that really helps find what I have been looking for in my own loading, and some of the rest of you have SUPERB ideas. So, here is the assignment. Organize your thoughts, prioritize them, and knowing that these replies will be a little long, tell us what your technique is when working up new loads!!!!

If nothing else, it will make us re-think some of the things we have been doing. Maybe we can figure out some ways to save time.

Coach

Thanks for the compliments, Coach.

My load development method is basically a sort of "modified Audette" method. For those unfamiliar with the Creighton Audette method his was a method of load development which consisted of shooting at a distant target, some 300 yards away if possible. One shot of each charge weight variation was fired at the bullseye at the 300 yard target, and if all went well, a vertical string formed on the target as the increased charges were fired. Somewhere along that vertical string should be a "cluster" of three or four shots that hang together, indicating the most stable area of charge variations, and therefore (presumably) the best amount of powder to put into that load.

The problem I and many others have found with the Audette method is that useful information often eludes. Sometime (perhaps more often than not) no cluster, and often no intelligible vertical string even forms.

I've developed the following method which I believe is an excellent way to arrive at the OCW, or optimal charge weight for a particular load recipe. I define the OCW of a load recipe as the amount of powder which ignites and burns most consistently in that application. I believe that for any given cartridge recipe, there is a specific amount of that powder which will yield the best consistency.

This method has worked beautifully for several loads I've developed for the .270, the .308, and the .243. Others have had good fortune with .223 loads using this method.

I'll tell you about the latest OCW load I developed for my .243, a Remington 788. The bullet was the Sierra 60 grain HP, and the powder used was IMR 3031. Primers were the CCI 200's, and brass was all twice fired Winchester.

In checking three loading data sources, I noted that 39 to 41 grains of IMR 3031 was the max charge zone for IMR 3031 with 60 grain bullets in the .243. I have found that the best loads for all of my own rifles have been loads that were at or near listed maximums, but I do test about 5 per cent below for pressure signs, then work up.

I began with three rounds each of five different charges, graduating in .3 grain increments. The tested charges were 39.2, 39.5, 39.8, 40.1, and 40.4 grains.

I cleaned the rifle, and shot two fouling shots and allowed two minutes for it to cool. I had five targets posted at 100 yards, one target for each charge variation.

I shot one round of the 39.2 grain charge at target 1, allowed two minutes for cooling, and then fired one shot of the 39.5 grain charge at target 2, cooled, one shot of the 39.8 grain charge at target 3, cooled, you get the idea...

This is basically a "round robin" system of grouping each charge, which precludes disadvantaging late groups due to fouling, or heat build up.

When finished, I had three shots on each of the five targets, BUT (!)... I don't look for the tightest group of the five and call that my load.

Here's what I do instead, and I'll explain why later: I look for the three groups of the five that come the closest to hitting the target in the same position. I noted that in this case, the three center groups were the ones which happened to hit the same POI, (all within about 3/4") with the 39.2 grain group hitting low and left from that common POI by an inch. The 40.4 grain charge, in addition to moving high and right of the common POI for the three center charges, opened up in size to about 7/8". The 39.2 grain charge shot about 1/2", but as I said, it wasn't near the common POI that the 39.5, 39.8, and 40.1 charges shared.

So I concluded that the best charge for this application was 39.8 grains of IMR 3031. This was the charge that would allow 39.5 grain charges and 40.1 grain charges to group right with it.

Why would I want that?

Well, variations in brass cases, powder lots, outside temperature--and other things can cause your load to increase or decrease in pressure. With the OCW load, you're covered for a significant amount of pressure differences that may come into play. If I'd gone with the 39.2 grain charge, a *slight* rise in pressure, brought on by an odd brass case or a hot day, etc., would have resulted in a 1 MOA deviation high and right of my POA.

I shot a 1.5" group at 300 yards with my .308 load with the 168 grain Sierra Matchking using one shot of 43.3 grains IMR 4895, one of 43.6 grains, and the third shot in the 1.5" group was charged with 43.9 grains. (The OCW being 43.6 grains, of course).

A group fired with my 30-06 at 335 yards consisted of loads all charged with 57.5 grains of H4350 pushing Sierra 165 grain Gamekings. One shot used a Remington brass case with CCI 200 primer, another used a Winchester case with that same primer, and the last load in the three shot group used a Winchester nickel case with a CCI BR primer. All three shots of this mis-matched trio came in at 2/3 MOA at 335 yards. (Update, I've since repeated this test for a five shot group consisting of two Remington cased loads, two Winchester nickel cased loads, and one brass cased Winchester load. Again with CCI BR and CCI 200 primers--again, the group broke 2/3 MOA. As an aside, the Remington cases weighed ten grains more than the Winchesters, but that wasn't enough difference to take the group outside MOA due to the pressure tolerance of the OCW load).

If you want to test the resilience of your own pet load, just load up a 1% increased charge, and a 1% decreased charge, and fire those two loads into a three shot group with the standard charge and see how it goes. In many cases, you'll find that either the low or high charge will group with the standard charge, but not both. This should at least tell you which way to go with redevelopment.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. How does one tighten the group after deciding on the OCW for their load? OAL adjustment is the way. Seating depth should be, in my opinion, the fine tuning tool used last, not first as is classically done. I've gotten kudos from Gerard Schultz of G.S. Custom bullets for this method of loading, as he says he uses a similar method wherein OAL adjustments are made last of all to tune for the tightest group.

Thanks for all who've taken the time to read, and I'm always open to constructive criticism ...

Dan Newberry
green 788

I hope alot of other guys write in with their techniques. For some one like myself that is just starting to reload(1yr.) the information is very informative. Thanks for the tips.

Accidental double post sorry.

Here's my technique for my last rifle and intended technique for my next until I have some time.

Polish Lee dies

Size, chamfer, clean, check and prime new brass

Select powder one grade faster than max velocity from Vihtavuori book for Hornady RN bullet

Load in batches of 3 at 1gr increments (assuming Mauser size case)to within but not beyond 1gr of book max.

Seat bullet to cannelure, chamber a couple and inspect carefuly for land marks. If none fine if some reduce COL (generaly you don't have to)

Shoot first 2 lots of 3 at 25yds to allow approximate scope setting and barrel break in. (checking for pressure throughout)

Check action screws, scope mounts etc have a sandwich and a cuppa

Shoot remaining 2 or 3 lots of 3 at 100 for group size. (checking for pressure throughout)

Go home check results load 20 of load of choice.

Check action screws, mounts, clean well.

Go hunting checking for muzzle flash, if happy be happy!

Not as scientific but it has some benefits

Safe
Simple
Effective
Fast

I shot 2 roe deer within 20 hours of having the rifle. After the initial box of 20 I went from VVN160 to VVN150 due to muzzle flash, hence the comment about choosing a faster powder than the best velocity powder - this is something I have noticed in 6.5x55 as well.

[ 10-01-2002, 14:38: Message edited by: 1894 ]

My new method has been a great timesaver the one time I used it --

Size, trim, chamfer a bunch of cases.

Take cases, primers, powder, bullets, scale to the range along with a spare press bolted to a 2x6. Clamp the 2x6 to a bench.

Prime several cases. Charge one case with the starting charge (HINT: figure out something to shield the scale from wind) and seat a bullet. Fire it over the chrono.

Increase charge until desired velocity/pressure level is reached. Load and fire as many rounds at that level as you feel you need to test accuracy. Vary seating depth, crimp, etc. as you see fit.

This is a very flexible method that saves all the time I used to waste loading and firing multiple rounds at velocities I knew I wouldn't want, and also saves the time I might otherwise spend pulling bullets from over-max loads.

The one time I used it (to find a 200-gr. 2200 fps reduced load for my .338 Win. Mag.) it took all of 9 rounds --

#1-4 worked up to the desired velocity.

#5 & 6, added to #4, completed a 3-shot group of 1.5".

#7-9 made another 3-shot group of 0.84".

This took about 4 hours but I was also cleaning the barrel after each of the first 6 shots, and zeroing the scope on this brand new rifle.

Under my previous method it would have taken 12 rounds to check pressure & velocity, even assuming I guessed the top charge level right, and another trip to the range with another 6 or 9 rounds to check accuracy -- and if I wasn't happy with the results, back to the drawing board. Add in barrel cooling time and I'm very happy with this new way of doing it.

Hey John Frazer -

quote:

---

(to find a 200-gr. 2200 fps reduced load for my .338 Win. Mag.)

---

A bit off topic, but, what did your load turn out to be? I've done pretty much the same thing in my 338 WMag with 38.6 I4759 and 200 B-Tips; 2200 FPS and groups that are scary small.

Excellent topic, this, by the way. Saeed, I hope your server has a lot of memory; I'm on Page 5 of my thesis (just kidding).

R-WEST

[ 10-01-2002, 19:49: Message edited by: R-WEST ]

Howdy,

I will try to be as brief as possible for a longwinded old Coach.

My technique will vary somewhat with the purpose of the ammunition to be loaded. If it is for plains game, then speed and accuracy are most important, if for general hunting, then grouping, if for white tail deer from blind, then ease of loading, if prarie dogs, then rapid loading...etc.

1. Prepare brass. This subject is so deep it is beyond the scope of this post, but it is the most important thing I do!!! Perhaps it will be another post sometime.

2. Choose bullet weight and type. Again, consult purpose of ammo. Don't choose a flat or round nose bullet for longish shots at Antelope, but don't choose pointed bullets for tube fed rifles either. Generally, I only use boat-tail bullets for very special and specific purposes....or when they are the only bullets I have left. LOL Seldom are premium bullets needed, but use them when they are needed!!! Use proper weight bullet to match your purpose!

3. Choose powder type. Consult not only your purpose, but also at least three manuals. You will quickly find one or two powders that are recommended by all three manuals! I try to choose the powders by Hodgdon; however, the reason for this is my own prejudice!

4. Choose step size of your powder charges. I generally use 1 grain for magnum cases, .5 grain for -06 size cases, and .2 or .3 for .257 Roberts and smaller cases. NEVER EXCEED PUBLISHED MAXIMUM LOADS, no matter what your chronograph says!!!!

5. Assemble dies, tools, lube, primers, etc. Make sure they are clean AND concentric! I like Forster/Bonanza dies because they set up quickly and produce very little runout!!! I however, also use RCBS, Hornady, Herter's, Pacific Tool & Die, and C & H dies. Usually, a set of dies that is suspect gets repaired or traded from my bench immediately!!

6. Prime cases. My technique for priming is entirely dependent on the purpose of the ammunition. If it is a lot of ammo for Prarie Dogs, then I use a quick Hornady hand tool. It is not the most accurate, but it is quick!!! If I need super accurate ammo, I use the priming attatchment at the top of my Forster/Bonanza press. It is slow as the seven year itch, but it seats each and every primer EXACTLY .005" below the head of the case. I have found that I cannot prime that accurately by feel...no matter what the books and manuals say!

7. Load 5 rounds at each powder step. I may only shoot 3, but I want the other two for foulers, called flyers, the odd jack-rabbit that runs across the range, etc.

8. Set up at the range, shoot foulers. Clean rifle, shoot a fouler then shoot 3, three shot groups into 3 different targets. Clean rifle, and repeat with the next three steps. All of my targets are punched for a 3 ring binder, and after firing, we place them in the binder with least powder load on top. As we thumb through the targets, you can see the grouping, and the point of impact of each group. My wife has accused me of having cartoons drawn on each target because I thumb through them so much.

9. Select the best load... remember your purpose??? Which will it be, most accurate, most forgiving, easiest to run from a powder measure instead of a scale, etc. I have seen myself lean toward the most forgiving loads over the last several years. I think that is why I am so intrigued by 788's methodology!

10. If you want to fine tune your groups, experiment with 5 shot groups with your choice load by varying the over-all-length. It has been my experience, that most of my rifles shoot best with .01 or .02 inch distance from ogive to lead, but that will change depending on your purpose and the bullet you choose!!

11. If I choose to fine tune further, I work with .2 to .1 grain powder increments. I think that most of the time this may be wasted time however!!!

12. KEEP SUPER ACCURATE RECORDS!!!!!!!

Well, there you have it; long as it is. Hope this may help someone.
Now, how many of you can put your techniques into words for the rest of us????

Coach

[ 10-02-2002, 07:55: Message edited by: Coach Hunt ]

My steps for a HUNTING rifle, assuming new gun, caliber, etc, at least 7 mm. Assumes 100% recording of facts and datum.

1: make 5 minimum book load with bullets/powder at hand. Set them up at BOOK col, book minimum load, and whatever primers I've got handy. Site in with these for a quick and dirty, it's on the paper.

2: use these cases to determine OAL of the rifle, with the couple of bullets I might want to shoot. bend case mouth a little, so it has neck tension, , blacken it, set it LONG LONG in the case, measure it.. put it in the action, close it, and open it, slowly. This should, after 5 times, tell you the max length you can use in this rifle. a stoneypoint will cut this time down.
then subtract .0275 from that length, and create dummies based off that length, this will greatly speed up die setup times.

3: based on how the rifle liked the bottom load, I start at either bottom or middle load (assuming middle load) work up 3 to 5 steps to max load. If it's readily apparent that the book load is far too low (as in 257 roberts, 7 mauser, 45/70) for the MODERN firearm I am using then I can go past book. This is a choice to flirt with disaster. i usually make 6 to 12 (depends on how long I have) of each load. (Well, 3 each for the lower 1/2 of the loads. )

4: Shoot ALL rounds over the chrono and record, at a different bullseye. Mine does std dev, max and ave spread, etc, so I just write that down. Remember, I already sighted in. noting accuracy, speed, looking for big jumps, and having a REASONABLE max vel. Expecting
3200 from a 708 with 140gr and a 20" barrel aint, but wanting factory (on most rounds) is a good idea. Or, in like the rigby, expecting a little more is okay, too. I have decided "if i get THIS i can stop" and got it way early.. and then STOPPED. But, when you run out of book values (most part)or have ANY real pressue sign, STOP. If you need more/other try another powder.

5: evaluate the loads vel, group, and pressure. If, (nice when it happens) you get a good group with the vel you want, you take that one, and the next closest to my idea and do specific load dev on that, especially on OAL. That means, if i shoot 30 rounds, and have two 3/4 groups at the desired vel, I'll play with OAL and crimp on those two loads.

6: start fiddling with depth of the best 2 groups, unless it looks like a 20 gauge at 35 yards. then you re-fiddle with the gun

7: if nothing works at all, then get some factory ammo(this is okay to skip) and see if it will hit the side of a barn, from inside it.

8: OH crap!! and start all over again.

Jeffe