Hi all, FNG here. Thanks in advance for your insights.
I am a relatively in-experienced reloader, only got a couple thousand rounds under my belt.
Primarily I reload for my .44 Mag. and for simplicity sake, I always use the same recipe, a 240 Gr. jacketed soft point bullet and H110 at the maximum (I think that is 24 gr. but my book is out in the garage!)
I have a few questions I would like to hear some experienced replies on.

1-As a means of saving a few peso's, what are your thoughts on using something like a Hornady cast lead SWC type bullet. Any barrel fouling issues etc?

2-If I use the lead bullet and the same H110 load, can I assume that these rounds are going to pattern on the target identically to the 240 JSP?

3-If I use the lead bullet, do I need to change the powder charge or is it the same? My book only shows data for jacket bullets.

4-Since these days I only shoot a few hundred rounds a year starting a few months before hunting season, do I even want to mess with a different bullet or should I just stick to the JSP bullet.

5-I just purchased a different primer pocket cleaner, it is a RCBS brush. I like how it works, I chuck it into a hand drill and give each case a few spins at a low speed and it does a great job but I notice a fine brass dust on the bench after doing several cases. Am I taking too much material out of the bottom of the pockets?? The primers still fit nice and tight. But am I shortening the life of my brass?

Thanks again for your input.

I have no experience with the 44 mag, but I do load for 9mm, 40s&w, and 38 special/357mag. pistol rounds.

I would recommend for plinking and such, follow some 44 special recipes. The lead SWC is a good choice and can be quite accurate. From my experiences, if you keep velocities around the 1100fps mark, leading would be minimal. This would mean possibly a different powder and definitely some elevation changes.

Hope this helps.

The lead or plated Ranier bullets will work fine for pratice shooting but lead bullets will lead the barrel at loads above 1000fps the plated bullets will take more but sticking to the jsp would let you pratice with your hunting load......just keep the cleaner from getting againist the side of the pocket too hard and it won't hurt for the time you give the case a quick twist to get the whole floor of the pocket.....if the primer is tight,then the case will last several reloadings......good luck and good shooting-loading!!

SooperRH, Before you think about using the Hornady swaged SWC's (pure Pb?), you'll need to know their diameter as well as that of your revolver's cylinder throats. If the Hornady SWC fall through the throats with little or no resistence, they are too small and will likely lead your bbl. and give poor accuracy. Moreover, before you switch to a Pb bullet, you'll need to remove all traces of copper fouling from your revolver's bore and switch to another powder. I'd suggest using 7gr. to 8gr. of Alliant's Unique with swaged Pb bullets that fit your cylinder throats if you wish to maximize accuracy and minimize bore leading. Btw, 6gr. to 7gr. of Green Dot will also work.

It would be perfectly safe to load lead bullets with the same load you use for jacketed bullets but they likely will not hit the same place as the jacketed bullets.

If I were you, I would just stick with the bullets you're used to. Also, I don't like cleaning lead out of barrels so I rarely use cast bullets.

As far as cleaning primer pockets is concerned, I only do it with a primer pocket uniformer when I need to remove a military crimp; otherwise they go uncleaned.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Grumulkin:
It would be perfectly safe to load lead bullets with the same load you use for jacketed bullets but they likely will not hit the same place as the jacketed bullets.
QUOTE]
Actually, you should back off your loads slightly when loading a lead bullet. Pressures will be higher for the lead bullet using the same powder charge as a jacketed. You are already at max. so backing off & working up would be prudent. Your lead load may or may not shoot to the same POI, every gun is diff. Like Paul said, leading will be as much a product of the bullets fit as it is to the vel. &/or hardness. Although I can tell you the Hornady bullets are swaged, not cast, and are very soft. I wouldn't push them over 1000fps & you can;t download H110 that low. A good hard cast. flat based bullet can be pushed to 1600fps w/ proer sizing & a decent lube.

quote:

Pressures will be higher for the lead bullet using the same powder charge as a jacketed.

Really? How so? If cast bullets are softer than jacketed bullets how would they cause higher pressure?

I have heard that if one shoots jacketed bullets with a powder charge meant for cast bullets, one can end up with a bullet stuck in the bore. I've never personally run tests to see if this is true and don't plan to, but that would indicate to me that a lead bullet is pushed down the bore more easily than a jacketed one.

Hey FNG, Welcome Aboard!

You tripped onto some fairly knowledgeable folks at this site. Don't always agree on everything, but it sorts itself out.

quote:

Originally posted by SooperRedHawk:
... I am a relatively in-experienced reloader, only got a couple thousand rounds under my belt.
Primarily I reload for my .44 Mag. and for simplicity sake, I always use the same recipe, a 240 Gr. jacketed soft point bullet and H110 at the maximum ...

Depending on the type revolver you have, some will handle it and some will shake loose. If you have an "older" S&W, and some other older Double Actions, you may want to back down a bit. Current S&W models do fine. No one will know but you. Then save the MAX Loads for Hunting.

quote:

1-As a means of saving a few peso's, what are your thoughts on using something like a Hornady cast lead SWC type bullet. Any barrel fouling issues etc?

Lead Bullets can also extend the barrel life to 100,000 shots. So it is not just the cost of the Bullet.

The problem with answering this question is that there are many, many types of Leading. And those "types" can be attributed to the Bore, Bullet Alloy, Bullet Size(as Paul mentioned), Bullet Lube, Burn Rate of the Powder and Load Intensity. Shoot a specific Alloy too Slow and you get one type of Leading or too Fast and get another. Alloy too soft can be a problem with holding the Engraving of the lands and too Hard causes a lack of "Obturation" (not sealing the Bore). On and on, plus others which I feel sure I've forgotten.

I'd recommend you get some books which deal specifically with Lead Bullets, and hang out on the Lead Bullet Board, both here and anywhere you can find experienced folks who will help you out.

Lead can be an aggravation, but I've always worked my way through the issues and eventually get a good Load.

quote:

2-If I use the lead bullet and the same H110 load, can I assume that these rounds are going to pattern on the target identically to the 240 JSP?

No.

quote:

3-If I use the lead bullet, do I need to change the powder charge or is it the same? My book only shows data for jacket bullets.

The best Lead Loads typically use something other than H110. But all that will become clear if you get the Manuals that deal with Lead.

quote:

4-Since these days I only shoot a few hundred rounds a year starting a few months before hunting season, do I even want to mess with a different bullet or should I just stick to the JSP bullet.

You might want to stay with what you are happy with. However, there are some excellent Cast Bullets on the market that will significantly out penetrate the SPs and HPs. You can go Shoulder-to-Shoulder with them and expect Exits, Don't expect them to Expand, but the Wide Flat Tip works extremely well in Revolver Hunting Loads for Killing.

quote:

5-I just purchased a different primer pocket cleaner, it is a RCBS brush. I like how it works, I chuck it into a hand drill and give each case a few spins at a low speed and it does a great job but I notice a fine brass dust on the bench after doing several cases. Am I taking too much material out of the bottom of the pockets?? The primers still fit nice and tight. But am I shortening the life of my brass? ...

Take it out of the Drill and use the Plastic Handle. It only requires a couple of "low impact" twists to remove the ash.

Best of luck to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Pressures will be higher for the lead bullet using the same powder charge as a jacketed.

Really? How so? If cast bullets are softer than jacketed bullets how would they cause higher pressure?
I have heard that if one shoots jacketed bullets with a powder charge meant for cast bullets, one can end up with a bullet stuck in the bore. I've never personally run tests to see if this is true and don't plan to, but that would indicate to me that a lead bullet is pushed down the bore more easily than a jacketed one.

The lead bullet can be softer but it also upsets to seal the bore better thus increasing pressures. If you run the same powder charge w/ a lead & jacketed over the chronograph, you'll see a significant increase in vel. w/ the lead bullet. Since there are no free lunches in handloading, an increase in vel. almost always comes w/ an increase in pressure.
The risk of a jaketed bullet getting stuck in the bbl. is the vel. isn;t sufficient enough to push the bullet out. It can only happen w/ very low target vel. loads, something well under 750fps. Check the Hogdon powder site for pressures w/ various loads where they have used jaceted & lead bullets w/ the same powder charges. You'll see pressures for the lead loads are higher, sometimes alot higher depending on the powder used (faster powders show higher pressures than slower powders).

Could it be that lead bullets fly faster because there's LESS friction between them and the barrel? Increases in velocity are NOT always caused by increased pressure.

Andy

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Originally posted by BigJakeJ1s:
Could it be that lead bullets fly faster because there's LESS friction between them and the barrel? Increases in velocity are NOT always caused by increased pressure.

Andy

Less friction tends to lower the pressures, decreasing the velocity. With out the resistance, powders don't burn as completly, which leads to more powder fouling. There is a reason the cast shooters use powders on the "fast" end while jacketed shooters use powders that are on the "slow" end of the scale (for that cartridge). You can see the same effect of "lower friction" by doing a plain jacket vs Moly coated comparison.

quote:

Originally posted by Tailgunner:

quote:

Originally posted by BigJakeJ1s:
Could it be that lead bullets fly faster because there's LESS friction between them and the barrel? Increases in velocity are NOT always caused by increased pressure.

Andy

Less friction tends to lower the pressures, decreasing the velocity. With out the resistance, powders don't burn as completly, which leads to more powder fouling. There is a reason the cast shooters use powders on the "fast" end while jacketed shooters use powders that are on the "slow" end of the scale (for that cartridge). You can see the same effect of "lower friction" by doing a plain jacket vs Moly coated comparison.

Tailgunner, I don`T think it`s friction.

I`ve seen the pressures listed for lead vs jacketed in a few manuals and lead always (in my limited experiance) shows 1-15K more psi with the same charge. I`m not sure why but if you check Hodgdon or IMRs` web site, or can find other data listing pressure and same charged lead/jacketed loads I think you`ll see the same result.
I agree lead looks to be "slicker" then copper but concider, if one pushs a object that has less resistance it will move faster and over come resistance easier. This in a firearm results in the bore volume growing faster and should cause the pressures to drop. If that was true the bullet should then slow down until psi caught back up, but they don`t appear to.

Joe
Single piece barrel/chamber or multi-piece (IE revolver)

In a revolver the bullet slugs up to fill the cylinder throat, slugs up again to try and fill the forcing cone, and than is swadged down to barrel diameter.

Some good points have been made here. One that I don't see, ref. the original question of full charge lead loads in a .44 mags, relates to the full effect of the base moving before the forepart.

I've had my M29/6" since late '67. Was reloading then but had no mold for that caliber so I purchased some swaged bullets. Don't remember the brand and it really doesn't matter since it was so long ago. They were faily hard but nothing like my lynotype alloy.

I used to shoot at a defunct sawmill, using the sawdust pile for a backstop. I dug out a few bullets - about 3 feet into the sawdust - after shooting full power loads of H110 and was astonished. Found that the Keith SWC points had set back so far under acelleration they almost looked like wad cutters! They had shot pretty well, good accuracy, but I dropped H-110 and went to 11/Unique and shot better, without deformation. I still use that load, with my hard cast 240/SWC/GC bullets, plenty of power and easy to shoot well too.

Just something to add to your considerations.

quote:

Originally posted by Tailgunner:
Joe
Single piece barrel/chamber or multi-piece (IE revolver)

In a revolver the bullet slugs up to fill the cylinder throat, slugs up again to try and fill the forcing cone, and than is swadged down to barrel diameter.

Tailgunner are you hinting at the multiple "bumps" a lead bullet makes when fired in a revolver as part of the pressure difference?
Hmmmm. Lead might just expand a touch more and require a bit more pressure to swage back down. Don`t know, it`s a thought...

All we can do is guess at exactly what's happening during the .00002 sec between hammer fall and bullet exit. We can develop a theory, that seems to fit the known variables, but it's still just a theory.