CSI:NY last night was trying to solve a murder, as usual. The 9mm bullet they pulled from the victim was found to have a steel core. Mack Taylor said that was unusual as the norm was a lead core. I bought that. It was also found that the bullet only penetrated into the victim's body half the normal distance. Taylor again surmised that it could have been fired from old military ammo which perhaps was not stored properly and the gunpowder partially deteriorated from age, thus being underpowered. I bought that. How about you?

1. Were there steel core bullets made?

2. Will partially deteriorated gunpowder in a cartridge yield half speed bullets?

tv is great, some good actors, remember when in the old cowboy shows they never had to reload there six shooter.
I would say he does not know 9mm very well.
A 380 is 9mm and there is plenty of steel core ammo and its a wimp cartrage, lacks peetration.

Being a TV show I'm surprised they got the technical stuff right. Yes, if a 9MM were steel core the sectional density would be less and so would it's ability to penetrate (on paper, anyway) compared to an identically proportioned lead core FMJ. But the difference might be unobservable in gunshot wounds. And yes,when powder begins to degrade it usually loses power.

Sounds to me like a plot line to help them identify the shooter later on, right?

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Sounds to me like a plot line to help them identify the shooter later on, right

You are correct they needed to be able to later tie it to a WWII Luger in a picture.

A lot of 9mm ammo was loaded in the past with a steel core.

To expand on what has been said,

#1). Television is "full of it." When you get into the work, you finally realize that much is deliberately misleading so the "copycats" and "wannabes" won't learn anything useful... But just a little. Don't want to be too silly. Long gone are the days when they "silenced" a revolver with a band aid over the muzzle... That and Broderick Crawford in Highway Patrol showing up and ending the gun fight with one shot from his snub nose after the bad guy has been trading shots with troopers with 6 inch 38's... Yeh... real funny/silly...

#2). The Germans were short on things in WW II, things like lead. I believe the major source of steel core/magnetic ammo was surplus. And the core was "sintered iron"... an iron powder they could form with pressure inside a jacket like lead.

#3). This would "tie in" with a surplus Luger quite nicely.

#4). I have fired ammo from just after WW I. 1920s. 7x57 mainly. Shot fine. Knew a man with surplus .303 that had many hang fires. Nice for training against flinch. Otherwise, a pain. My gunsmith, now retired, picked up a .45 ACP revolver and had it loaded with ammo his father had had laying around. I looked hard and it was dated 1918. I suggested it might be old and he said he wasn't worried. Basically it is the storage. Stored well, no powder doesn't go bad. Stored bad, anything goes... LUCK.

"2. Will partially deteriorated gunpowder in a cartridge yield half speed bullets?"

I recall reading somewhere(?) that nitro-cellulose powders become more potent with age - unlike myself... Of course I have neither first hand experience or could in any way back up that recollection.

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I recall reading somewhere(?) that nitro-cellulose powders become more potent with age -

I'm old enough to have a legitimate claim to CRS syndrom but I THINK what happens is the deterent coating breaks down a bit in some old powders and that makes for a little faster burn rate.

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Originally posted by Jim C. <><:

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I recall reading somewhere(?) that nitro-cellulose powders become more potent with age -

I'm old enough to have a legitimate claim to CRS syndrom but I THINK what happens is the deterent coating breaks down a bit in some old powders and that makes for a little faster burn rate.

LOL

Deterioration of the coatings that control burn rate is what I recall too. Thanks!

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... surplus .303 that had many hang fires...

Someone once gave me some old shotshells. I used them - or tried to. The first one went off all right but after a long enough delay for me to have lowered the gun a little! (The hare escaped unharmed while everyone thought I was a bad shot!) As for power, I'd say there was nothing wrong with the power - just the time it took to get going. (I dismantled the rest).

I love it in the old westerns where a 45 cal six shooter has shot and it had no recoil, I guess they were using blanks, but a 45 doesn't mimic a 22. I don't think that dawned on me when I was a 6 yr old watching Roy Rogers, Hopalong Cassidy, Gene Autry, The Lone Ranger, Tonto, etc, their 44s and 45s didn't kick - but I loved to watch them - still do.

One of the reasons I enjoyed Dirty Harry was that the 44 Mag Clint shot, acted like my 44 Mag - it kicked.

Hack

I think we all have been there, 303guy! I have some old 303's I think from the 50's. I like to call these rounds brown-bess ammo! Click......1....2.....3.....BANG! You are always rolling the dice when you order surplus ammo!
In my head I just think of whats happening. I think of is a cannon fuse. Slowly burning down until BOOM!