Everyone is out.

Are they discontinuing sales in the US?

Looking for 203B and 204.

Black Hills was the importer I thought. They don't list it on their website on their powder list.

According to Don Heath at Norma, Western Powder has taken over the distribution of Norma Powder here. They should have received a shipment by now.

Thanks! Graf & Sons used to have it, but they are out.

I talked to the Western Powders guy at the NRA convention in St. Louis, and he confirmed the Norma distribution. New packaging (the same short, square, plastic containers that Accurate Powders uses) should be coming out soon.

Have you considered using the Alliant equivalents? N204 and RL-19 are the same spec powder. I'm not sure about N203B, but there may be an Alliant equivalent.

Both "Norma" and "Alliant" are made by Nobel. Both have a reputation for greater than normal lot-to-lot variation. The "Norma" will vary from the "Alliant" in about the same way that two lots of the same brand vary. So regardless of which "brand" you use, you'll need to verify your load by reworking when changing lots.

I'm new to reloading. Didn't know there was a large variation between lots. Are you saying variation between Alliant and Norma equivalent powders or variations between different lots of Norma? Are the lots marked by code, date, etc?

quote:

Are you saying variation between Alliant and Norma equivalent powders or variations between different lots of Norma? Are the lots marked by code, date, etc?

Yes, Yes, Yes.

Norma's might have less variation but you still need to check. Most info from the reloading books, powder manufacturers etc say when you chnge lotts back off and rework you loads. Critial if you are already loading to the max. Yes the powder will have some sort of label to indicate the lott. If you happen to find a load your rifle loves make sure and get several pounds of the same lott.

N203B is RL-15

I exchanged emails with Sherri L. Swanson at Western Powders today. She confirms that they will be the new distributor of Norma Powders. No retail sales from Western, just to distributors and dealers. She said hopefully sometime this summer.

I would forget Norma powders completely. They come and go. Norma is always finding another distributor blah blah blah. Their supply line has never been any good.

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
I'm new to reloading. Didn't know there was a large variation between lots. Are you saying variation between Alliant and Norma equivalent powders or variations between different lots of Norma? Are the lots marked by code, date, etc?

All powders tend to vary slightly between manufacturing lots (kinda like your granma's lemon pie might turn out a little different from one day to the next depending on what kind of lemons, shortening, and eggs she used and what the humidity was on one day versus another.)

The Nobel powders, however (sold as both Norma and Alliant) have a long-time reputation for varying more from lot-to-lot than do most cannister grade powders. Years ago I bought one of the first cannisters available of Norma 205, and it worked magic in a particular overbore rifle. Once I used it up I bought another cannister (from a later lot) and blew primers right and left with the otherwise identical load.

The current Nobel-made Alliant powders RL-22 and RL-25 are said to both be the "same" spec powder, but the two lots are so different that they are marketed as different powders.

This is not to say that the Nobel powders are not good powders -- to the contrary, they usually yield excellent velocity and accuracy compared to competing powders. It's just that they may not be "the same" the next time you buy some.

At any rate, if you choose to substitute an Alliant powder for its equivalent Norma powder you are apt to get good results, but the load may need to be adjusted to derive the same velocity and pressure. The same thing applies to different lots of Norma powders, and yes, each cannister will have an identification number which is unique to the lot.

By the way, only a fraction of all powder produced is graded to cannister grade for sale to hobbyist reloaders. The preponderance of powder is sold to munitions companies to load in finished ammunition for either civilian or military usage. If a "lot" of powder turns out to be too far from the "cannister" standard used for that powder, then it will be sold to an ammo company which will test it for burning rate and qualities and which will then load it in loads adjusted to that particular powder. Thus, only powder lots which are within the tight parameters of performance for a particular cannister powder are sold at retail. Each powder retailer has its own tolerances for how close a "lot" must come to the standard to be packaged and sold for reloading. It appears that Nobel uses a wider window of performance for its cannister powders than do most manufacturers.

Which manufacturer has the most consistent lot to lot production?

Powder Valley lists N 202 as in stock, 23.00 a pound.

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
Which manufacturer has the most consistent lot to lot production?

I think the question you really need to ask is "Which distributor has the tightest burning rate standards for its cannister labelled powders"? I'm not sure I know the answer to that, but I do know that it is not Norma. It is my understanding that ball powders (which are all or nearly all double-based nitroglycering/nitrocellulose) are produced in larger batches in a somewhat "continual" process, thus the batches ("lots") are larger, so there are fewer lots to vary from one another. Stick powders (mostly single based but some -- like Norma -- double based) are produced in "batches" that are smaller, so there are more "lots" to potentially mismatch one another.

How closely a Distributor's powders will match one another from lot to lot depends on how thoroughly they test them and how tolerant they are of deviation. In my experience, some of the Hodgdon-marketed powders seem to be pretty consistent lot-to-lot, but as a single reloader I can't have had a broad enough sample to say anything conclusive. Besides, my experience ranges over 45 years, so as things change prior years experience becomes obsolete.