The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Different names, same powders....Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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A lot of the US powder companies import some, or all of their powders from overseas. The same powder from the same vat at the same factory can show up on the shelves in different cans. I used to load a lot of Win 540 & 571 in shotshells. I was a bit panicked when those were discontinued, then I found out that HS-6 & HS-7 by Hodgdon were essentially identical. Many of Hodgdon's powders are manufactured in Australia (Mulwex?). Ramshot imports their canister powders from Belgium. What I'm wondering is if my esteemeed colleagues on this forum can offer insights into what powders go by different names in different countries? For example, who really makes the common powders used in RSA, and are those sold in the USA? If we could cobble together a cross reference table then when I read about a load from Australia I could translate it into the powder designations that I know up here. I'm just very curious. Thanks to everyone for their help. JCN | ||
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The powders are NOT identical. They may be from a different batch or lot (and lots can vary up to +/- 5%. | |||
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I believe Hodgdon imports ADI powder from Oz. Give this link a try. http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp | |||
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onefunzr2, Thanks for the lead. Steve, I have heard that lots vary, so I always work up loads carefully (still have most of my appendages after thirty years). Can you tell me of any other instances of where the same powder, albeit from different lots, leaves a factory and then is sold under different names by different importers/resellers in the canister trade? Thanks, JCN | |||
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Just curious, if AR2207 is similar to H4198 and the stuff is made by ADI here, what price does it retail for in USA. We're paying $AU32/500g tin.(approx $US21.70) Federal primers are $AU4.80/100 (approx $US3.27) Sierra 6.5mm/140HPBT are $AU46.20 (approx $US31.40) | |||
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Wallace, in the SW US, 4198 varies from about $18-$21US per pound. John, the current Reloder series is a variation of the Norma 200 and MRP series of powders. In the past, Hodgdon powders were also supplied by Nobel of Scotland and IMI of Israel. Some of the Accurate Arms powders are from the Czech Republic. | |||
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Thanks Blackhawk & BAW, I had forgotten that AA 2200 and AA 2230 were Czech powders (for 7.62x39 and 5.56/7.62x51 respectively). I think Nitro 100, Solo 1200, and Solo 1250 were from Nobel also, not sure. I didn't know about the Norma/Hercules/Alliant connection. I was complaining about the lack of Norma powders in the US for all those years and had them right under my nose the whole time  .I wonder if IMR powders have appeared elsewhere in a different guise? Please keep those cards and letters coming. I think I'll pick up an Alliant, er' I mean Norma loading manual... JCN PS Senor Wallace, whatever the Oz equivalent of Varget is, get some. That stuff is the best thing since Vegamite sandwiches. | |||
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BLACKHAWK44, in the Reloader series, which powder is the same as Norma MRP?? I used MRP for years in my .338 W.M., but it's getting mighty scarce in my neck of the woods. The Reloader powders are easy to find. Thanks. L.W. | |||
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Quote: hmmmmmmmmm.....i was under the impression that this was not true with "cannister" powders. i know this is true, however, with regard to military powders. i thought that the the big difference between cannister and surplus powders is that the cannister powders are consdierably more uniform from lot to lot. i take it that i am mistaken in this belief..??? | |||
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If you look through Hodgdons web site they actually state that some of their powders come from ADI here in OZ. I know that Varget is actually AR2208, as for the rest I will see what I can find. I actually emailed ADI asking what powders were supplied to Hodgdon and what were the USA equivilants. That was 4 weeks ago and have yet to receive a reply, I will email them again and if I ever get a reply I will post the information. Frank  | |||
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Frank, Thank you for your help. That is a good looking rifle. What type of laminate is the stock made of? JCN | |||
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To the best of my knowledge (and I may be totally out), the ADI/Hodgdon equivalents are: AR2205 = H4227 AR2207 = H4198 AR2206H = H4895 AR2208 = VARGET Benchmark2 = Benchmark AR2209 = H4350 (is this now a SC or short cut powder?) AR2213SC = H4831SC AR2217 = H1000 Not sure how the ADI shotgun/pistol powders fit in if at all (I suspect they dont.) Please don't take the above as gospel as I may be quite wrong! Cheers... Con | |||
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Frank, ADI will not respond to emails, even when you query potentially dangerous loads, their response is silence. Annoying, but I dont think they have the resources to respond to emails and general enquiries. All questions need to go through a dealer/supplier. Cheers... Con | |||
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Awesome Con, We all have to work up loads for every individual gun, but I would like to put together a rough cross reference list so that when someone from a faraway land posts a load we can have a frame of reference. JCN | |||
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Quote: Okay, if AR-2205 and H-4227 then why did I find the following? .17 Bee Improved, 25 grain bullet AR-2207 From 11.5 grains to 13.5 grains H-4227 From 10.0 grains to 11.0 grains .22 Hornet 40 grain bullet AR-2205 From 8.2 grains to 10.2 grains H-4227 From 9.0 grains to 12.0 grains .256 Winchester 87 grain bullet AR-2205 From 11.0 grains to 14.0 grains H-4227 From 10.9 grains to 14.7 grains .357 Magnum 158 grain bullet AR-2205 From 14.0 grains to 16.0 grains H-4227 From 10.5 grains to 16.3 grains .44 Magnum with 240 grain bullet AR-2205 From 20.0 grains to 24.0 grains H-4227 From 20.5 grains to 26.0 grains These are just a couple of examples, there are around 129 loadings I have with AR-2205 compared to H-4227. I also have comparisons with the other powders listed... | |||
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If one chronographs ADI loads and compares with their own web text, you will soon find that most are B/S. The only load that I've found to be close was for the 340 WM. I contacted ADI about 2 years ago and was told that many of the loads were computer generated to be ultra safe in most rifles. Ricciardelli, you are probably right as the suppliers data is conservative to say the least. In 222Rem I'm loading a full grain over their maximum with no pressure signs and still not getting factory equivilent velocity. | |||
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Ricciardelli, Without a doubt the discrepencies are beyond my understanding. As noted I believe that what I posted are the equivalents, never said they're identical. But... if you gave me an identical powder to one you had, one of us used a computer program and the other a test barrel, one was a little more conservative than the other, one used a different primer or bullet than the other, different barrel lengths etc etc... I'm sure our results would differ somewhat. To the best of my knowledge, the ADI data has not been developed in a pressure gun nor comprehensively tested in that manner, although I believe they do have a pressure gun. The ADI data in my limited experience is conservative although some fire-crackers exist in there as well. For the record would I use Hodgdon data to develop loads for ADI powders... NOPE! Cheers... Con | |||
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Quote: L.W., from another thread: RL 15 - Norma 203 - RWS R903 RL 22 - Norma MRP - RWS R905 Not 100% sure, but I believe: RL 19 - Norma 204 - RWS R904 - mike | |||
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The information I have regarding the Hodgdon/ADI relationship is that ADI supplies to following powders which are repackaged and marketed by Hodgdon. AR2206H - H4895 AR2208 - Varget AR2209 - H4350 AR2213SC - H4831SC AR2217 - H1000 AR2219 - H322 Benchmark 2 - Benchmark The old AR2206 was identical burning rate to IMR3031 but this relationship does not exist with AR2206H. There may be ommissions from this list which basically matches the info that Con posted, with a couple of exclusions which may be correct. I believe much of the data at the ADI reloading site is taken from the Hodgdon data, a comparison shows remarkable similarities with the above powders. This would be logical as Hodgdon have the facilities to fully develop data, and would also explain some of the big changes in the ADI reloading info over the last few years. | |||
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HiWall, mho, con, BAW, Thanks fellas, I read last night in an article in Handloader that the Bofors plant in Sweden makes the Reloader/Norma powders. Maybe Norma owns Bofors, or perhaps both are owned by a parent company. Does anyone know where the RSA powders are made, and what their numbered designations are? Regards to all, JCN | |||
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Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RL 15 - Norma 203 - RWS R903/ Bofors RP3 RL 22 - Norma MRP - RWS R905/ Bofors RP5 Not 100% sure, but I believe: RL 19 - Norma 204 - RWS R904/ Bofors RP4 - mike Now we are cooking! JCN | |||
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Quote: Check out http://www.somchem.co.za/ Look under "small calibre propellants" on the web page. There's loading data on their web site. Also, this Word file http://www.somchem.co.za/reload/reload_info.doc has a "SCHEMATIC CHART SHOWING THE COMPARATIVE BURN RATES AND RELATIVE POSITIONS OF PROPELLANT OF THE MAJOR MANUFACTURERS". -Bob F. | |||
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Thanks Bob, BTW, do you keep Jeffe in line by yourself, or have you had to hire some extra help? JCN | |||
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Quote: Uhhh, what? Must be a different Bob.-Bob F. | |||
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IN 7.62x25mm Tokarev, 110 gr Starline brass, incremtal work up*: 1) AA#9, 14.2 gr., primer falls out 2) Ramshot Enforcer, 13.7 gr, primer falls out Then I compared the powders. Both were small black spheres of black ball powder. Both smelled the same. One was shiney and one was flat black. I thought I had figured out something new, but when I did a search, someone else had already figured it out. *Don't try this in a CZ52, no matter what the load books say, a Tokarev is stronger. | |||
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Thank you sir. JCN | |||
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Uh-oh, I've been using H110 and W296 data interchangeably for years. Thought they came out of the same spout. | |||
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Con The rifle is fitted with the original factory Varmint Stock. I stripped it back to bare wood and stained and lacquered it about 2 years ago. I also fitted it with a target barrel from Ruger. Its in 22.250 and will shoot consistant 5 shot groups of .4 inches with 40 grain to 60 grain projectiles. Frank  | |||
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Don92, As penance you must load up 500 rounds with each powder and go shooting this weekend. (50 rounds of H110 equals 1 Hail Mary, and 50 rounds of W296 equals 1 Our Father - As you all can see, I practice my own unique version of Catholicism). JCN PS It must be out of a 45 ACP (Major power prayers). | |||
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Quote:Clark, in YOUR incremental workup, what did you feel was a safe maximum of AA #9 with the 110 gr. for a CZ52? (I've seen your blowup pics.) | |||
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MHO, many thanks for that info on RL22 for MRP. I'll be using it very soon as I'm about out of MRP. L.W. | |||
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