While trying to decide on my next Big Bore project, I've been playing with my 460 WBY ground squirrel gun. Looks to me like the top velocities that anyone lists for the 460 with 500 gr bullets is about 2650 or so with a real gun and not a 30 inch pressure barrel. Has anyone topped that and if so what load are you using.
I also noted, that with the 600 grn bullet Barnes claims near 2500fps with a load of 114 grs of H4831, however everyone else seems to get about a max of 2350 or so with even stiffer loads. Anyone out there been able to get better results than this?-Rob

I have a Thompson Center pistol with 10" barrel that's been rechambered for the 460 wby.I use it mostly for snap hip shooting.Anyway,a load that works well for me is to fill the case with ffffg black powder and then crimp a .457 lead ball with a pair of pliers.I'm quite pleased with this arraigment as cases seldom need sizing { And when they do,I just beat them into the pistol's chamber with a hammer}barrel never needs cleaning and accuracy is quite impressive with groups averaging about minute of tree stump.Just thought I would share.

Hey jagtip,

Is that little devil ported??????????????

I use to shoot the 300gr Hornady hollowpoint from my 460Wby. I didn't have a chronograph back then but estimated that little bullet to be doing about a million miles per hour. Performance on PA groundhogs was spectacular. KAAAABOOOOM!
VH

I have a Mark V 460 Wby with a 26" barrel + break. My fastest, "regular" 500 gr load involves the Hornady RN 500 gr bullet with 122 grs IMR 4350. The average velocity is 2680 or about 7970 ft-lbs. This is my standard load. The rounds always eject flawlessly until I have fired them for at least 8 times (sometimes more). The fastest load ever was 2748 fps (8380 ft-lbs) using 125 grs powder- but there were signs of pressure (dimple on primer and shell didn't eject easily). My loads at 123.5 grs were clocked at 2720 or about 8200 ft-lbs, however, I don't normally load this high since it is too close to max, although there were no pressure signs.
For Barnes 600 gr Originals, I use 113 grs of IMR 4350. This gives an average velocity of 2451 fps or about 8000 ft-lbs. The COL was 4.045". I have not tried to find the max for this bullet since a 600 gr bullet at 8000 ft-lbs is enough for any living creature on earth. This load is a lot of fun to shoot!
It is important to note that my loads are faster than what most people report, so I would never suggest these loads without a long load development stage (I would hate to see anything the size of a 460 Wby blow-up).

Shawn

Those are some impressive velocities Shawn. Are you able to feed you 600 grain Barnes loads from the magazine?

Shawn are you familiar with the old rule of thumb that you shouldn't over load a case more than 110%. Some of your loads are around the 120% mark. Do you have any trouble with bullets pushing out of the cases?

One more question. With you hot loads (which I consider all of yor posted loads hot) how is the accuracy?

I am not trying to be a smart ass either. I haven't owned a Mark V Weatherby in the any of their big three so I am trying to understand what they are capable of. In my experience a Magnum Mauser will lose accuracy big time at the load levels you are quoting. Also, none of my Mausers will feed anything with a cartridge OAL more than 3.90"

Todd E

Shawn- The loads you quote are quite impressive and given the freebore of the WBY they probably are just fine. I've used this trick on my .50BMG competion rifle to boost velocities with great results. If the shell extracts easily, the primers look ok, and the primer pockets stay tight on a set of cases for 5 reloads, I consider the load safe. I usually also mike the case to see just how much expansion occurs.
Frankly,I've been impressed with the effectiveness of the KDF brake WBY puts on their 460. I've only tried 350gr bullets at 3010fps and 500grs at 2400 so far and IMHO the felt recoil is less than my unbraked .416 Ruger Rigby at 2600fps and one heck of alot less than my unbraked 450 Ackley on a Rem 700. Gun weight has alot to do with it, as well as stock design, but these brakes work really well.
Interestingly, I found a Hornady Manual load of 115grs of H4831 with the 600 gr bullet that supposedly hits 2450 fps. There seems to be alot of controversey about this as others have reported much lower numbers with even higher loadings.
I hope others here can verify these loads.-Rob

With the exception of the 600 gr bullets, I always seat to the cannelure but I never crimp. There is sufficient tension at the neck that the bullet stays in place (I have not tried this w/o the muzzle break- this would probably jar loose the bullets). My loads for the RN are w/in safe loads posted by Hornady. Their max is 123.6 gr for a velocity of 2650 fps. IMR 4350 gives by far the best velocities with the 460 Wby (at least according to Hornady- it is all I have ever tried with the 460).
The 600 gr bullets have to be hand fed into the chamber. They are way too long to place in the magazine. The only way to get the velocities that I obtained with this bullet is to not seat to the cannelure. With the 500 gr Barnes-X bullets, when I seated to the cannelure I could not exceed 115 gr of powder and the velocities would not exceed 2550 fps. Any more powder and pressure signs would appear. The Hornady RN would travel at the same velocity but would do so safely (ie. No pressure problems).
As for loading at 120 or 115% case capacity, I am not sure what you mean by that. Powder fills the case to the base of the neck (not the top) when I load 122grs. The powder then is slightly compressed. At 118 grs, you can still hear the powder when the cartridge is shook. Powder is never "packed!" It is important to note that the bullets used are the Hornady RN not the FMJ. The FMJ has a greater distance from bullet base to cannelure, and hence, would pack the powder more.
I spent many rounds working up my loads and have now fired over 200 rds of the 122 gr powder loads. Only after at least 8 firings will the shell stick at all. Studying the shells have revealed a slight bulge at the base of the shell- identical to what can be seen from other types of cartridges after many firings (ie. 6.5 x 55, 300 Wby, etc).
The accuracy of my loads have been quite good- at least for my ability as a shooter. Two weeks ago I had a 3 shot group of 2.5" at 200 yds. I normally print sub 1.5" groups at 100 yds. I am sure the gun and loads are capable of greater accuracy, but having only a 1.5-5x scope makes it hard to see the target at these distances clearly. I cannot find anyone with excellent shooting abilities to sit and fire 3 or more rounds without flinching. It took me about 100 rds before I could shoot 20 rds w/o a single flinch.
As for pressure concerns, there are many factors that allow one gun to handle hotter loads than someone else. The chamber, head spacing, distance to the rifling, reloading dies ( and this can vary w/in a particular brand), rifling itself, and shell brands all can contribute to a gun being able to produce greater velocities than other rifles. With my rifle, the body of the case does not expend enough to measure, but the neck of the round does expand enough that a bullet can be dropped into the shell through the opening. I suspect that all of the above considerations must be in play for my rifle to be able to push velocities as high as I do w/o excessive pressure.
As for the age old argument of max load versus accuracy, this depends exclusively on the gun in question. For instance, the Weatheby Co. loads near max and no one can claim poor accuracy with a Wby rifle with Wby loads. I have found greatest accuracy with my 300 Wby and 6.5 x 55 to be medium loads while the 460 does great at hotter loads, but it does poorly at medium loads. My father used to have a Ruger 44 mag revolver that was only accurate at max loads! You just have to test each rifle/handgun separately to find your best load.
That's my 2 cents (well actually about 4.5 cents- it was a long reply),
Shawn

SHAWN460-Well this is interesting! I just measured the magazine box on my 460WBY and its 3.920. A COL of a 500 gr Hornady FMJ crimped to the cannelure is 3.729. The 500 gr Hornady SP is 3.702. Since your 2450 fps load using the 600 gr Barnes COL is over 4 inches and won't feed from the magazine,this would explain the difference in velocities reported in the manuals.There were a number of reports of the 600 gr bullet having a max of 2250-2300fps, which I can easily explain if they loaded to the same OAL as the 500gr bullets with the Barnes originals. Barnes reports a max of 2496 with this bullet, but does not mention seating depth.I wonder if you loaded the 600 gr Bullets to just fit the magazine if you could still fit in the same amount of 4350 and safely attain these velocities? Did you try a drop tube and did it help?
It's also interesting that you don't use a crimp. Did you try crimping and note pressure signs? I usually crimp heavy loads in hunting rifles due to the possibility ( usually very real) of bullet set back under hard hunting conditions. With that said, depending on the degree of neck tension, this may not be necessary.
I noticed that Woodleigh has a 550gr SP and FMJ. My bet is that they will fit the magazine loaded to the cannalure. Anyone have any experience with the Woodleighs in the 460WBY?-Rob

I have never bothered to crimp any of my rounds since I have no plans to go hunting. I love to shoot (either paper or plinking) and I am very close to being a true carnivore, but I am not interested in hunting. I hand feed all of my rounds while sitting at the bench, therefore, crimping is not necessary.
I imaging that I would have the same trouble seating the 600 gr bullets to the cannelure that I experienced with the 500 gr Barnes-X. Even though I only used 115 gr, the powder was "highly" compact. There is absolutely no way that I could pack 122 grs of IMR 4350 and use 500 gr Barnes-X bullets with them seated properly. In fact, I have one round that is slightly bulged due to the seating process with 117 grs of powder (the shell had been loaded at least 6x). I now keep that round just for display purposes (you have to really look close to see the bulge).
I have never tried a drop tube and nor have I tried the 550 gr Woodleigh bullets.
Shawn

Shawn460- Thanks for the info. I wonder if you could seat a 600 Barnes on top of 113grs of 4350 and hit an OAL of 3.900 inches or less and still have safe pressures? From past experience using a 20 inch drop tube, I've found that you can reduce the powder column height substantially. From your post this would only be about .150 shorter than what you are using and I wouldn't think it would increase pressures that much. I don't yet have any 600gr Barnes bullets or I'd determine this myself. I'm ordering them today. Even compressed, this would fit the magazine box with .020 to spare (tight but should still work). My interests in this cartridge are purely for hunting particularily Buff and the like, therefore, I need to get three such rounds in the gun. I imagine there is no need for a cannelure on the Barnes original as it will be sitting on an already compressed powder charge which should preclude any set-back problems. In the past when working with highly compressed powder charges that bulged the case, I've used a modified ( reamed out to neck diameter) FL sizing die to remove the bulge. This is a common problem with the 470 NE and other large cases.-Rob

I received two boxs of 550gr Woodleighs and 600 gr Barnes originals yesterday and did some preliminary seating depth experiments. Using a 20 inch drop tube, it is easy to add 113gr of IMR4350 to a 460 WBY case and seat the Woodleigh to the cannelure for a COL of 3.710. These Woodleighs are beautiful bullets and their performance should be outstanding. With the Barnes 600gr bullets ( god these things are ugly) this is impossible, however the COL can be held to 3.850 with some compression. These rounds should both fit and feed thru the magazine. Something that must be accomplishes without any difficulties as this is purely a Buff rifle. I'm going to start at 106gr of IMR4350 and work up to 113gr tomorrow and chronograph the results. I'll post them monday. I'll also try the 123gr of the same powder with 500gr Hornady SP.-Rob