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8x57 150gr Hornady IL SP: Am I pushing this bullet too fast?
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Last Wednesday (12/14) I shot a mature cow elk at a range of about 75 yds. with a sporterized 8x57 '98 Mauser, 24" barrel.

The bullet entered high in the chest cavity, behind all major shoulder muscle and clipped the
underside of the spine damaging very little meat and leaving no exit wound. The lungs were mush.
I did not recover any bullet fragments, or the case because I was in deep soft snow and had two tags. After the first shot I was trying to acquire a second target.

The round was a 150gr. Hornady IL SP compressing 55gr. of H-380 in an unfired Herters case with Fed. Mag primer. A similar load of 56gr. of H-380 in a Win case chronos at ~2900fps out of this gun.

I suspect the bullet came apart and wonder, am I pushing it too fast; is the Hornady IL SP
not suited for this application?

Thanks,

MT Lassiter
 
Posts: 20 | Location: Montana | Registered: 23 January 2003Reply With Quote
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I think you must have a fast barrel on your 8x57 but I don't think you were pushing the envelope charge wise.
Personally, I would have liked a stouter, heavier bullet but it sounds like the one you used did the job.
It seems some think if we don't get a classical mushroom from a bullet, its some sort of bullet failure. There are too many variables involved.
 
Posts: 367 | Location: WV | Registered: 06 October 2005Reply With Quote
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I think you have a great deer load worked up, but I would move to a heavier or stouter bullet for elk, especially if you are hunting timber or other locations where your shot are going to be under 100yds. Most std. cup/core bullets do best w/ impact speeds around 2500-2600fps (JME).
If it matter, your sec.den. is 0.205, pretty low for good penetration from a cup/core bullet. If you like Hornady, step up to the 195grIL.


LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT!
 
Posts: 7752 | Location: kalif.,usa | Registered: 08 March 2001Reply With Quote
<9.3x62>
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I use the 150 Hornady in my 8x57 with 29-30 gr IMR 4198 for about 2200-2250 fps. For deer at ranges under 150 yds, this flattens them nicely. Usually I get tissue damage and often an exit. For elk, I use 200gr bullets at 2500-2550 fps.

As for using this load on cow elk - it worked on the lung shot, but I would definitely advise a heavier bullet for future applications of this type. The 180 Barnes would be good, or the 195 Hornady, of you're on a budget.
 
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Thanks for the replies.

I actually had a handfull of 200gr Partition loads in my pocket, but after spotting elk at first light and planning a strategy amongst four of us I loaded up with the lighter bullets anticipating a much longer shot.

I sure wish Nosler would make a 170 gr. Partiton in 8mm.
 
Posts: 20 | Location: Montana | Registered: 23 January 2003Reply With Quote
<9.3x62>
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quote:

I sure wish Nosler would make a 170 gr. Partiton in 8mm.


Well, the 180 gr. Barnes TSX is available... a fine bullet to be sure...
 
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Uuuuhhhh, I'm not trying to be a smart ass but I would recommend that you work up one load for your rifle and use it on everything. And use it enough (practice, practice, practice) that you know its trajectory.
Also, I think if you look up the detes on the 150 and the 180, you'll find the 180 is carrying a much better punch at distance than the 150.
 
Posts: 367 | Location: WV | Registered: 06 October 2005Reply With Quote
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Roll EyesAbout the load and the developed pressure it is hard to say.If you don't have difficult bolt handle lift and no other pressure indication you are probably all right.You do, however, have room to slow down and still get the job done. If you ask around you will find plenty of folks who have killed elk with 150 gr bullets from a 30-30 at 2250 fps. prior to magnumitise. cheers

About the bullet and it's adequacy again you'll have to be the judge. what would have happened on a slight quartering toward you shot that you might have had to go through the shoulder? If you come up with the answer that the 150 gr. whatever is only marginally adequate make a change as some have here suggested to you. beerroger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
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MT I have and use several 8mms including the 8x57,8mm-06,8x68 and the 8mm Rem mag. I have used the lighter bullets 150 gr and lighter) from all the manufacturers and all of them open up pretty quick. Personally I would not use the 150 gr 8mm bullet even on deer.I have found in all the 8mm rifles I have worked with the 175,185 or 200 gr bullets are better choices for game. They give up very little to lighter bullets velocity and trajectory wise and penetrate much better. They also shoot better groups. The 175 gr sierra holds together very well and is very effectice at 8x57 & 8mm-06 velocities. The 185 gr Rem bullet is also quite good at these velocities. The 200 Speer 8mm bullet is very useful. It penetrates very deep @ 8x57 & 8mm-06 velocity and makes a good light game bullet in the larger 8x68 or the 8mm Rem. For bigger game the 200 gr Partion and 200 gr X bullets are very effective. I have found the 220 gr Hornady to be a little soft and opens up too quick. the 220 gr Sierra is a little tougher and works good at long range in the bigger 8mm's. With a little heavier bullet you would have no trouble stopping elk with a well loaded 8x57, even on quartering shots. Hope thishelps
 
Posts: 2443 | Location: manitoba canada | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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The Hornady 150gr is excellent on deer, used at 2600fps or less muzzle velocity
 
Posts: 1547 | Location: Lafayette, Louisiana | Registered: 18 June 2005Reply With Quote
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Thanks again.

You all have pretty much validated my suspicions about this bullet. Even though it dropped that cow in her tracks, I will relegate my Hornady's to antelope and plinking. My gun is zeroed for the 200gr Partions anyways and POI would probably have been closer (lower) to POA had I used one of those.

Happy Holidays all!
 
Posts: 20 | Location: Montana | Registered: 23 January 2003Reply With Quote
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I have that the performance envelope for most Hornady ILs is usually a muzzle velocity of 2800 or less


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
<9.3x62>
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In my experience, the 150 Hornady is capable of eye-popping accuracy. At modest velocites, it is a very good hunting bullet for deer-sized game...
 
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The 150 gr does give outstanding accuracy in my Turk Mauser. I shot a deer in the head just below the eyes near center at about 60 yds. It dropped/died right away,but oddly enough the slug did not exit through the back of the skull, it traveled down the neck.
 
Posts: 29 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 08 January 2005Reply With Quote
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