As many know, S&B makes cheap ammo. I didn't realize how "cheap" until this weekend.

I had picked up 5 boxes of 6.5x57 (131 gr) for about $10 each (boxer primed). I figured: cheap ammo for the 200 and 300 yd gongs and then I have some brass to work with.

Here's the aftermath:

1 blow primer
2 pierced primers
22 extractor marks (too much pressure)

AND BEST OF ALL...

I had to cull 71 (yes, 71) of the 100 cases because their rims were too thick to fit in a shellholder! I tried several shellholders (even an old worn one) - no dice.

If this isn't the most stunning example of crap factory ammo I have ever seen I don't know what is.

Had the same bad luck with some S&B 8x57 ammo on the same day.

Maybe all y'all have had better S&B experiences than this, but I will set my hair on fire before I ever touch another box of that crap.

Just a warning for my parsimonious compatriots here at AR.

9.3

Thanks for info on this stuff. Never used it, but I've seen it for sale here and there. I think a lot of us see the "boxer primed" part and think it will be a great source for reloadable brass. Your experience speaks differently. Kinda' like tryin' to polish a turd.

I have S&B 7.62x25mm ammo that I pull for the brass, as it will go a grain more powder before the primer falls out compared to Starline.

I have S&B 7.62x54R ammo that shot very straight, but I couldn't reload until I got a Lyman primer pocket uniformer, because the radius at the bottom of the primer pocket was too large. Also the reloads were not accurate.

The S&B shotgun shells I have cannot be reloaded with free world primers.

Here is a thread where Denton says he is getting good results with S&B:

http://www.nookhill.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=009408#000008

I've shot several hundred rounds of their 30 carbine ammo and have reloaded the brass with no problems. I got 500 rounds real cheap and have been happy with it. A range buddy swears by thier 7.62x54 Russian ammo.

sorry you had problems, glad you are safe.

regards,
Graycg

I have had good luck with their 7X65R brass, and fair luck with their 8X57JR.

On the 7mm I got 9 loadings before starting to show case head separation. What I like about their 7mm brass is that it holds a full grain more powder at lower pressures due to lighter case walls. I am getting more consistent groups with SandB then from RWS, go figure...

But the primer pockets were very tight to fit in CCI200 the first few times..

I was surprised the stuff worked so well for me, course I am using light loads in a double rifle.

As to their prices: how can you complain about their prices which are a third to a half of western european loaded ammo for metrics it is the best value.

Jameister

Wow, that's a bad batch. I reloaded 60 of their .223 brass--no problems, and no rejects yet.

I have reloaded S&B .45 Auto Brass from .45 Auto S&B Ammo that I shot, "range pick up" S&B .45 Auto Brass and some given to me from friends that did not reload or "did not like it". I have had no trouble with it and get about the same results as with Remington, Winchester or Federal .45 Auto Brass. It is "easy" .45 Auto Brass to get and is low cost. I like it. I even like the "CBC" .45 Auto Brass for the same reasons. Given a choice I would take the S&B .45 Auto Brass over the CBC .45 Auto Brass.

Put differently: If you had to throw away 71% of your brass because you do not have the proper size of shell holder, then I would first check my shellholder. It is possible that a thick rimmed batch got out the door. It is also possible that your rifle has a canted bolt or breech face. It is also possible that your shellholder is not the same spec as the european spec for the rim thickness. I too have had frustration with rim dimensions, on a shotgun that just wont close on some ammo brands. drove me nuts in the field when my ammo would not fit and the birds were flying. my choice was to open up the breech to fit the rims or buy different brands of ammo.

Have you miked the rims to see if they meet the specification for the caliber? clymer reamers post may specs for chamber dimensions.

Looks like it is not a problem of values, it is a problem of dimensions.

I had the same back luck with the 8mm Masuer rounds. Won't fit the shell holder.

As my original post states, I tried multiple shellholders that are supposed to work. Moreover, I cross-referenced shellholder charts on all the major die-maker website. Also, I have the specified shellholder from nearly every major maker, none of them worked, and ALL were supposed to work according to said shellholder charts.

Believe me, I tried to make them work; 6.5x57 cases are not that easy to come by.

None of my other CIP rounds have trouble with their respective shellholders.

I had no trouble chambering, firing, exracting, or ejecting this ammo (evidently the thick rims didn't bother the Remington extractor). It has nothing to do with the rifle, as I discovered the thick rim problem on quite a number of unfired rounds.

Sometimes problems of dimension map directly into problems of value.

It sounds indeed like Cellar and Below is what their new name should be!!

I just finished prepping 35 once fired 7X65R cases. hope they work OK, since I have two hours into them, deburring flasholes, trimming to length, and the like.

Maybe you can let their importer know of hte problems...

Jameister

case and loading problems are not confined to one manufacturer.
Winchester 22 hornet - 5 out of a box of new cartridges split necks on firing. Sako never a hiccup.
Lapua 6.5 x55 - 12 out of 40 split on second firing moderate velocity 2400/140gr bullet
Federal 30-06 - last perhaps 3 firings before splitting (match chamber)
Norma 38 spl factory +p- damn near blew my S&W 686 cylinder

I found I have to anneal all these cases now to get a longer life.

I am curious about this as I have about 150-175 S&B 7x57 cases that are straight out of the tumbler - beautiful! I have not attempted to reload any - yet - as I am getting ready for an AK trip but was told these cases require a different shellholder than Rem, W-W, etc. Anyone know if this is true and if so, what is the correct number for this shell holder?
Best regards,

I've heard of the pressure problems but not rim difficulties.

RWS makes superlative brass but their 308/30-06 rims never fit the #2 lee shellholder either.

The rim on the 6.5x57 is supposed to be 0.051 - the same as the 9.3x62, and actually thinner than the 308 case (0.054). Everyone who makes shellholders that I know of does not list a brass-brand specific shellholder. All my norma brass works out fine in standard shellholders.

To be fair to S&B (who, admittedly, are better known for reasonable prices than great quality), I've had expensive RWS cases with the same rim thickness problem. Probably not as bad as 71%, but enough to notice. Wonder whether this has something to do with the 9.3x62 being a non-SAAMI round (which I assume it is?)??
- mike

Hate to hear of another shooter/reloader having a problem. I have shot and reloaded much S&B 6.5X55 brass with very good results. I haven't tried any other caliber in S&B.

Trapper, I checked my 7x57 S&B brass last night and it fits int he standard Lee shellholder with no problem. Don't remember which sixe it was but it's the one that came with the die set.

I've shot the 7x57 out of my Mauser custom and 8x57 out of my pre-war sporter with no signs of problems with the brass. I have not reloaded any of them yet though.

Like Cherokee, I have shot some of the 6.5x55 and reloaded same. I have had good results with the limited number of cases for my Swede. Not disappointed...

I bought a box for my .270 to use as foulers and subsequently reload. Haven't reloaded yet, but the primers seem soft because thay crater like hell. Brass looks good, in general, though.

Since I have a Forster Co-Ax, shellholders are a moot point for me.

RSY

I have reloaded a whole bunch of S&B .45 ACP brass. A someone else noted, the primer pockets canbe tight at first, but that is the only problem I have run into.

I shoot a lot of S & B ammo in 7 x 57 and 6.5 x 55, I have not had any pressure problems, both are very accurate in my 7 x 57 mauser sporter and 6.5 x 55 swedish 96/38 sporter. The primer pockets need to be cut about .005 deeper and the #3 Lee Shell holder works fine.

I've loaded plenty of S&B .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 9mm and .30 ACP. and have not had any more problems or rejects than I have had with W-W or R-P. Can't comment on the rifle stuff.

Scout Master 54

I am from Czech republic, where S&B is made. What to say about that is that quality differ from lot to lot. Sometimes, bullet are seated with maybe 2mm tolerances, sometimes primers are not seated correctly, sometimes bullets are bad crimped and sometimes it is good and accurate ammunition. They used fastest for caliber powders because it is cheaper than put more slower powder, for example 7.62x25TT is loaded with Accurate #2 powder, with pressure still under CIP max. but higher than Accurate Arms reccomend . . . Of course best results in that caliber (for higher speeds) is with #5 or #9 . . . and this is also with rifle cartridges . . .

Jiri

S & B offers good ( not great ) performance. I've used it in my 8X57 'cause I wasn't set up for reloading that round and needed some ammo for hunting. Worked just fine.

From a reloading standpoint it has always received mixed reviews. Check out some of the milsurp boards and many will report that they don't use the brass for reloads.

It's a niche product, I believe, for the metric shooter of mostly milsurps who normally shoots FMJ surplus ammo but ocaissionally needs some hunting rounds.For that it is well-suited.

A couple years ago,the AR15 shooters noticed that S&B had a tendency to have a large # of case/head seperations. I have avoided this ammo/brass for 3 years now. It might be cheap,but new faces aren't. I have noticed this alot in other ammo manufacturers.It's usually in one caliber that this happens. Just so happens to be in my favorite cal. I never bought any as I don't need to see for myself. I'll take thousands of bad reports words for it. There is so much better out there. LC Win. WCC(win Nato),TC.Did I mention LC? lol jerryboy

Jiri,
How do you know that S&B charges 7.62x25mm Tokarev ammo with AA#2 powder?

Does AA buy AA#2 from the same place?

Trapper,
I load S&B brass for my 7x57.With RCBS shell holders, it takes a # 11. Rem. Fed. etc. takes a #3.

S&B is the only brass I use in my 7.62X54... it has always performed well for me, with one box having about 3 small shoulder splits after firing the factory load. I've reloaded some of them 3 or 4 times with no problems so far. My thoughts.. if you expect match performance, don't buy economy brass.... get the Lapua or Norma.. then when you have problems, you have a right to gripe about it....