What are the most common signs that it is time to buy new brass? Is the paperclip method along the base the best? Thanks in advance.

I've never been able to use the paper clip with any success so I just cut a case in half lengthwise.
It's been my general experience that if you are shooting a reasonable load and partial full length resizing your cases, they'll last quite a while. and you'll start getting neck splits and loose primers before you get case seperations.
I'll usually buy 100 cases and treat them as a "unit". Each case will be fired before I start over again. When I get about 10% failures, this includes neck splits, loose primer pockets, etc, I'll pitch the whole unit and buy another batch. Sometimes, the brass will get so "tired" looking, so shop worn, that I'll still pitch it for new even though I haven't reached any sort of failure plateau.

quote:

I've never been able to use the paper clip with any success so I just cut a case in half lengthwise.
It's been my general experience that if you are shooting a reasonable load and partial full length resizing your cases, they'll last quite a while. and you'll start getting neck splits and loose primers before you get case seperations.
I'll usually buy 100 cases and treat them as a "unit". Each case will be fired before I start over again. When I get about 10% failures, this includes neck splits, loose primer pockets, etc, I'll pitch the whole unit and buy another batch. Sometimes, the brass will get so "tired" looking, so shop worn, that I'll still pitch it for new even though I haven't reached any sort of failure plateau.

Pretty much the same way I do it as well.

I use it until the necks split. But I have had case separations before split necks. 30-30, 32 Spl, and 303 Savage, all fired in lever guns.

I typically shoot it until the primer pockets wear out.

I must admit I've never gotten the "paper-clip" test to work for me.

So instead, I just watch the wear and tear I CAN see....and feel. I can see when a faint line starts to form around the top of the case web...usually about one or two loadings later, that line will start to become a crack, indicating a very near to casehead separation situation. Definitely time to toss all those cases, if they have all been loaded the same number of times.

Likewise, I can feel when cases start to get loose primer pockets. And I can feel when case neck tension starts to vary greatly...both when pulling the expander button out of the case necks, and when seating bullets. And naturally I can see if I start to get lengthwise cracks in the case necks.

If the cases look good otherwise, I may try annealing the necks of the ones not cracked, to restore uniformity, so long as trhe primer pockets aren't also getting loosey-goosey.

But if I have lots of cases of that chambering, I'll just toss them even if the primer pockets are okay, and start with a new batch. The .30-06 and .308 Winchester are good instances of when I do that - I have literally bushels of each, awaiting their turns at the plate.

Any corrosion which leaves a rough black surface on the brass when removed by 0000 steel wool or tumbling is also grounds for my tossing cases. Those blackish areas are places where the chemistry of the brass has changed, and the brass has lost significant strength as a result.

How much has it lost? Well, I can't measure that, but I can say it is more than I want to risk still safely holding 45,000 or more p.s.i. of pressure in my nice rifles.

Alberta Canuck wrote:

quote:

The .30-06 and .308 Winchester are good instances of when I do that - I have literally bushels of each, awaiting their turns at the plate.

Ac, where/how do you get those "bushels" of .308 brass?

All, I have recently acquired both a Lyman and a Lee manual. I like the Lee because of the caliber index in the back. Lets me go straight to what I want. I like the Lyman because it's bigger (easier on old eyes) and has some good illustrations. Both kind of shill for their respective brand of equipment (and I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T) and both have good information. I haven't gotten to the point of comparing data between the two. The Lee claims the data comes from the bullet (or is it power) manufacturers. Don't know the source of the Lyman data.

Oh, and what do you do with the used brass when you cannot reload it any more?

Depends how long he's been saving. I'd guess I have about 10 gallons of 5.56 and 4 or 5 gallons of .45. One of these days I'll sort the rest of it.

Used brass goes into a recycling bin at my club when it is no longer reloadable. It gets sold as scrap. You can do the same yourself, I don't recall the price per pound.

I appreciate all of the responses. I never could get the paper clip to work either. Thanks much.

quote:

Originally posted by B Mullins:
Alberta Canuck wrote:

quote:

The .30-06 and .308 Winchester are good instances of when I do that - I have literally bushels of each, awaiting their turns at the plate.

Ac, where/how do you get those "bushels" of .308 brass?

Oh, and what do you do with the used brass when you cannot reload it any more?

For years I was a competitive "Full Bore" competitor ("Hi-Power" here in the States). In those halcyon days, the Canadian government provided as much free .308 (7.62 NATO) ammo as we each could shoot (and a lot more too), through the Dominion of Canada Rifle Association. That was for both Service and Civilian shooters.

Run out, the local club
would issue you another 1,000 rounds on demand. They also provided us with free targets and a 1,000 yard range right in a city of about 650,000 souls (Calgary, Alberta).

My local club was the Kings Own Calgary Regiment Military Rifle Association.

It was the same for competition small-bore shooters too, free .22 LR ammo and a free range at Mewata Armoury in downtown Calgary. All that free ammo ended in 1983-84. Likewise, we lost our free 1,000 yard range (Palamino Range at Sarcee Canadian Forces base). The land was leased from a local native tribe, and the government would not pay their requested rate increase when the lease expired. So, both we and the military were booted off the range. I was the Officer in Charge of the rifle matches at the time the lease ended....shortly afterward I moved back to the 'States.

Anyway, we all saw the shadows on the wall years in advance, so some of us picked up brass left on the competition firing line too. Dosn't take long at doing that when you are shooting a match every week of the year, to have quite a passel of brass.

We also insulated a LARGE two-story barn with live ammo...my rough guess would be 500,000 rounds. It provided Alberta competition shooters with ammo for some few years after the official program ended. Matter of fact, I still have a couple hundred rounds of loaded IVI-'74 7.62 Nato Ball from that program.

Until I recently moved back to Arizona, I was shooting in Oregon for 21 years. There I gave all my throw-away worn out brass to the gun club, as did a lot of other shooters. The club in turn sold it to recyclers and used the money to support the club's Jr. Rifle Team. Brass paid for a lot of petrol and sandwiches for their trips to matches in other areas, and for their club membership in the NRA.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
I typically shoot it until the primer pockets wear out.

The primer pockets don't actually wear out, they simply expand from the effects of repeated pressure. That's why it is often said that the life of brass depends largely on what pressure your loads are running. "Unsustainable" pressures are those which resulting stretched primer pockets within the first couple of shots. Depending on your personal standards, you may or may not find pressures acceptable which result in any stretching of the primer pocket, even in a dozen or more loadings.

Stoney, I've had some brass I've needed to retire due to streached primer pockets after 20+ firings. If the pockets are streached in 3-5 firings, it time to reduce the load.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
Stoney, I've had some brass I've needed to retire due to streached primer pockets after 20+ firings. If the pockets are streached in 3-5 firings, it time to reduce the load.

+agreed! Too many reloaders think that it is perfectly acceptable to get only three firings before primers start to fall out. Such pressures are flirting with problems.

i'm going to add my .01 cents,i didn't like the paper clip,but what works good is the RCBS casemaster gauging tool(it measures run out as well)has a gauge and pointed probe,when the needle runs backwards .002 to .003 near the web i toss them,tool isn't the greatest for run out,but works great on checking for case seperation.nickel brass was discussed on another thread,and i find it's harder to see the beginning of case seperation with the nkl. brass,pretty though!

My ability to use with certainty a paper clip or a comparable tool lacks competence, at best. However, I never had any case separation( luck I guess).
The only case failures I've experienced were split necks, expanded primer pockets, ruptured over loaded cases, and with Carcano Military cartridges, blown holes in the side of the bases. roger

I keep most of my brass loadings in the 45K CUP range, according to reload manuals..

I use the Lee Neck Sizers, use body dies to bump the shoulder back when needed... and anneal every 4th firing...

For most of the brass, I have gotten a pretty long life out of it by this method...

I sort brass into a lot of anywhere from 10 ( non 223) to 50 rounds ( 223).... they spend their lives stored in a zip lock bag...along with a 3 x 5 card...

on the 3 x 5 card, I put the month and year the brass was put into service, on the back the annealing history...

on the front on each line I record the
1. charge and powder used,
2. the bullet
3. primer used
4. Full length or neck sized
5. date of that load

eg; 30 gr 3031, 55SP/H, CCI, N/S 9/14/11

when that card fills up, I just put in another card and paper clip old one in back of it..

with neck splits, I record those on the back also...

when I get cracks at the web, I ditch the lot number here...

223 rounds, I have gotten well in excess of 50 reloads
22.250 in excess of 40 reloads..

other stuff, I have few brass casualties..and don't shoot it anywhere near as much as I do 22 centerfire...

a little prudence at the reload bench and powder scale can dramatically increase the life span of brass...

oh and of course it gets a night in the tumbler when it is getting dirty or sticky..