Quick question: how do you guys prepare new (unfired) rifle brass? My manuals have some ambiguity as to whether it should be cleaned first, and whether to full-length resize it before doing anything else.

BTW, it's Lapua - that stuff is awesome, the quality and attention to detail leaves Remchester in the dust, IMHO.

Thanks,
Bruce

Bruce, I just received 100 6.5-284 Lapua cases yesterday. I'll full length resize them, chamfer the case mouths and then sort them by weight. Anything +/- >1 grain gets permanently marked as sighters.

Along the same idea as Fjold, but after I full length size, I trim to length and clean in media. After that I sort by weight. +/- 1% for best accuracy or +/- 2% for hunting loads. I agree with the quality of Lapua brass. I'm working on some now for my 6.5-284. With Lapua brass I don't worry about uniforming the primer pockets or the flash holes. Good Luck.

Woody

Why the need to FL resize first? I'd have thought the manufacturers could've turned out well-made cases without the need to resize? Or are manufacturing tolerances lower than for resizing?

Thanks guys,
Bruce

They could get dinged up in shipment. They could be out of spec.

I read of one that had a large burr in the flash hole. It was found by it weight.

I full length resize, clean out the flash hole, same with the primer pocket and then trim.

Then I waste my time sorting by weight, putting into separate batches. 100 rounds equal 5 batches.

Full Length sizing might or might not be benificial when working with new brass. I always full length size because it might.
I also do a full prep on new brass, trim, flashhole, deburr, vld chamfer etc. just because if I later have a problem I pretty much know it wasn't because of something with the brass.................DJ

I run my new brass into the fL die just far enough to let the expander ball enter the case beyond the neck. This makes sure the case necks are round and expanded. I then chamfer and debur the neck. I then ream the flash hole, check the trim lenth and sort by weight.

I FL resize my new brass....trim to length and chf the case mouths and then clean and I'm ready to reload.

I full-length size all new brass.

Then I trim all brass to the length of the shortest.

Then I chamfer the inside and outside of the case mouth.

That's it...from then on in, the cases get neck-sized only.

quote:

Originally posted by ricciardelli:
I full-length size all new brass.

Then I trim all brass to the length of the shortest.

Then I chamfer the inside and outside of the case mouth.

That's it...from then on in, the cases get neck-sized only.

I thought you only did chamfer and deburring if case was trimmed?

Please explain this.
Thanks

Did not mean to hijack.

But I full length resize, check lenght, deburr if needed {trimmed} Check flash hole, prime,load, bullet seated,

Shoot and enjoy

Why would you not resize new brass? I picked up 200 rounds of new Winchester brass from Sportsmans Wearhouse a few weeks ago was it was noticibly bent out of shape around the case mouth. Perhaps I got a bad batch?

quote:

Originally posted by reef12:
I thought you only did chamfer and deburring if case was trimmed?

Please explain this.
Thanks

Did not mean to hijack.

But I full length resize, check lenght, deburr if needed {trimmed} Check flash hole, prime,load, bullet seated,

Shoot and enjoy

I am a newb so please take my advice with a grain of salt. My understanding of chamfering and deburring before each resize was to make it easier on the expander ball, and to help with bullet seating.

Perhaps I am wrong?

I don't bother with the full length resize. New brass is in "resized" dimension and you will change very very little by resizing.
If I was bench resting maybe I'd think about it.
I use a lyman M die or hornady die with elipitcal expander and just do the neck to be sure it's perfectly round, do an inside chamfer and load. I just got a batch of new Hornady brass in 300 wby and loaded up 28 for a hunting trip. If I remember right this method produced only 6 loaded rounds that had more than .0025" rounnout. (and none of these were over .0035") Those were my "sighter inners" and I'm 99.99% sure that they went to the same exact point of impact as the ones under .0025" runnout. (about 15 of the loaded rounds were at .0015" and under) Also by not full length sizing I feel that I get a better feel for a neck that might be a little undersized or oversized as that's the only area I work on the brass. Just what works for me.

First, Thanks to you all. I was just about to ask this question. Altho' I did a touchy feely experiment to see if I could figure out the answer for myself. Resizing new cases and then resizing the resized cases (does that make sense?) Anyway, the unsized new cases were noticable harder to cycle through the die. That led me to believe, that all new brass needed an initial run through the sizer. I have to say Steve's proces is the one I'll be using. One day I may shoot good enough to see a difference in brass that weighs 1 gr. more than the rest, but not today...

quote:

Originally posted by Waffen:
Why would you not resize new brass? I picked up 200 rounds of new Winchester brass from Sportsmans Wearhouse a few weeks ago was it was noticibly bent out of shape around the case mouth. Perhaps I got a bad batch?

No, you didn't get a bad batch. I've found that this is true for every batch of new brass I've ever bought.

I FL resize. I found that you need to lube the outside of the case and the inside of the neck in order to do this -- otherwise there is too much scratching of the case and you may even get one stuck in the sizing die. I then chamfer the outside and inside of the case mouth -- this is done so the bullet will seat with a minimum of deforming of the bullet from any burr on the inside of the case moutn, and the case will go into the seating die without a burr on the outside of the mouth infuencing its position in the die.

I then deburr the primer hole.

I have not found it necessary to ream the primer pocket on new brass.

I have also found that it is not necessary to trim the brass, although I usually try to do this after the FL sizing process. Since I trim using the Lee trim system, I cannot adjust the trimmer, and I find that the new brass is -- usually anyway -- shorter than what the Lee Case Length Gauge would have the trim distance to be.

I then clean the outside of the case by wiping it with a cloth saturated with Remington bore cleaner (that's always my method of cleaning brass -- I do not ever tumble it) , and I clean the inside of the neck with a cotton swab.

The sizing step -- at least outside and inside neck sizing -- is absolutely necessary with new brass because at least some pieces are always misshapen or otherwise off.

Deburring the flash hole is not absolutely necessary, but it is a good idea because many cases will have a burr around the flash hole. Whether or not this influences the firing of the case, it's nice to know that this possible variation has been removed.

Almost all bulk brass I buy is deformed from shipping and handling. The only exception has been sometimes when I got Norma brass in the boxes of 20; the ammo-type boxes protected them from damage.

In big game hunting rifles I usually just round out the neck, trim, chamfer and load. I look inside to make sure there's no flash hole problems.

Varmint brass (except for the AR15) gets the full treatment because the guns shoot well enough to tell the difference. The Ar doesn't seem to need the same care. It shoots .5-.7 MOA with or without particular attention to brass.

Inspect, FL size, clean flash hole burrs, chamfer and a quick check of length and you're good to go....this will get rid of all those handling dings etc new brass will pickup on the way to your reloading bench.

Many ways to cook a steak, this is my procedure.

hth

fyi--I'm trying to avoid buying brass in bulk. I've found suppliers that supply them in factory bags of 50 for both remington and winchester. This brass arrives on my doorstep in far far better condition that the good old bulk ones that show up in a cardboard box and look like they were tumbled with rocks!! Probably why I'm not having to spend time fl resizing....and the price is virtually identical to bulk.

quote:

Originally posted by kraky:
fyi--I'm trying to avoid buying brass in bulk. I've found suppliers that supply them in factory bags of 50 for both remington and winchester.

Sorry, but those bags count as bulk. And the brass in those bags is precisely the stuff that you need to treat, as described above, before you load it.

Well, I guess you were there when I opened them. Why would you tell me that it's the same stuff when I SAW IT AND WORKED WITH IT??

Kraky,

I have used numerious ammounts of the exact same 50 round bags from Winchester specifically in 30-06, and they all needed full length resizing prior to the first load.

It's not like it's all that much extra work to FL resize brass.

Well in the bags I used I got almost all my brass to come out with excellent runnout WITHOUT FULL LENGTH SIZING. So, if the brass is virtually perfectly straight and the neck tension is consistant what do you propose to tell me I'm gaining by full length sizing??

quote:

Originally posted by reef12:

I thought you only did chamfer and deburring if case was trimmed?

Please explain this.
Thanks

Did not mean to hijack.

But I full length resize, check lenght, deburr if needed {trimmed} Check flash hole, prime,load, bullet seated,

Shoot and enjoy

Chamfer is for bullet seating and most reloaders chamfer all cases whether they are new untrimmed or not. Sometimes cases don't have to be re-chamfered if you neck size only and did not need to trim. You need to rechamfer also if you crimped the previous loading like with a Lee Factory Crimp Die because the crimp bends the previous chamfer into the bullet.

Waffen

quote:

I am a newb so please take my advice with a grain of salt. My understanding of chamfering and deburring before each resize was to make it easier on the expander ball, and to help with bullet seating.

deburring is referring to taking the burrs off the inside of the flash hole and has no bearing on the expander ball. I've never chamferred in order to make it easier on the expander ball, but I suppose that could work. Normally, chamferring and deburring is done after resizing. I don't really have to worry about expander balls anymore since I've gone to Lee Collet Neck Sizers, but chamfering might make it easier to run it up onto the Collet, come to think about it.

Hope this helps.

Guys, I'm not trying to push my methods onto you. I used to do the "full boat" of reloading. I used to weigh bullets, I used to weigh cases, I used to index loaded ammo into my my gun based on runnout, I've neck turned new brass. I've done alot of time consuming things.
Two of the best tools I own are a runnout gauge and headspace measuring kit. I used to think that full length resizing new brass would bring them up to the shoulder dimension of my die which was carefully set to match the chamber of the rifle. It didn't do that. Because the new brass is of smaller dimension it can't push the shoulder up to the headspace dimension I wanted.
I've never seen full length resizing get rid of the tiny dents on the outside of the case of new brass for the same reason. And really it doesn't matter anyhow.
Then comes experience with the runnout gauge. I find the lyman "m" die to be exceptional at straightening out case mouth dings. It also does a great job of producing REALLY GOOD CONSISTANT NECK TENSION. Then I found factory brass REALLY WAS AMAZINGLY STRAIGHT!!. I also found I had a defective shell holder and full length resizing was actually making brass done with that shellholder WORSE! The runnout gauge also taught me to be really careful when inside chamfering or my finished loaded round did not seat straight.
Bottom line is I match my efforts at reloading for the hunt I am going on. For Wisconsin whitetail hunting at less than 100 yds I don't spend nearly the time or effort. For long range hunting I prefer not to waste time full length sizing, but to measure ALL THE STEPS RIGHT UP TO THE FINISHED PRODUCT. I just got back from Alaska and fully expected possibly 300-400 yd shooting. That batch of new Hornady cases (which had the runnout checked on every case) turned out absolutely wonderful. I got to a range before hunting and the worst brass of the group shot a 3/4" 100 yd group with northfork bonded bullets right where it should have been (after going through 2 airport luggage changes.) Then I went hunting and got every animal I shot at including a moose at a lazered 390 yds. (no it wasn't a one shot kill but he was down within 10 minutes). I guess what I'm saying is my finished product is good.....Really good.....without FL sizing. If you have the tools to measure the whole process you might have more confidence in the finished product. If you don't have the tools you might not have what you "think you have" just because you FL sized, or did other things that are supposed to yield such phenominial accuracy.
AGAIN,these are my methods....they work for me. If you want to do more...go ahead...more power to you. I don't shoot as much as I used to and in all honesty to myself and others.....my ammo really does "outdo" what I am currently capable of in the field and when I stand to take a shot I wonder about how I'm doing it and have no doubt my ammo is not the "shortcoming" of the result if it turns out less than perfect.

I had a bad experience resizing new brass on my 9.3 X 62 must have bumped the shoulder and created a brass headspace problem. I went back to my old ways of just ironing out necks.

quote:

Originally posted by BruceNZ:
Quick question: how do you guys prepare new (unfired) rifle brass? My manuals have some ambiguity as to whether it should be cleaned first, and whether to full-length resize it before doing anything else.

BTW, it's Lapua - that stuff is awesome, the quality and attention to detail leaves Remchester in the dust, IMHO.

Thanks,
Bruce

I full lenght resize trim and deburr ALL new brass. Some need it, some don't - BUT most need it!

quote:

Originally posted by BruceNZ:

BTW, it's Lapua - that stuff is awesome, the quality and attention to detail leaves Remchester in the dust, IMHO.

Thanks,
Bruce

It would want to, I was getting bulk Win 223
for Aus. 0.21cents while Lapua would be more like a dollar a pop?
JL.

In this part of the world there's stuff-all difference in 6.5x55. For 30-06 the Lapua is about twice as dear as Remington - but I'd still take the Lapua any day!

Bruce

No neck turning after FL sizing new brass ?

I'm suprised that no one has mentioned fire forming with a safe load before jumping through the hoops.

I'll mention it, swamp_fox!

This is my procedure for rifle brass:

I only do a quick visual inspection of each new case--looking to see if each actually has a primer pocket and 'centered' flash hole. That's it. Then I load a cheap factory bulk jacketed bullet over something like 4895 powder and fire form. THEN I go through all the gyrations needed for DG hunting or big game hunting or varmint hunting ammo. Obviously, small caliber paper punching loads get the absolute most attention to detail.

Perhaps I'm anal but I can't see the sense in uniforming unfired brass that's going to change dimensions in the chamber, and especially if it's going into an Ackley Improved chamber where EVERY case length gets shorter after the first firing.

You pays your money and take your chances; everybody eventually finds his own way. This happens to be mine.

Necked modern cases: Neck size to make neck round then chamfer mouth. The chamfering is done on a case trimmer with a cutter that makes the mouth ronded. Then load.

45-70, 44-40, 45ACP, and such get belled and a bullet seated.

Lapua brass comes pretty much ready to go. It doesn't need to be FL sized that's for sure. You can debur the flash holes and uniform the primer pockets if you want, but I don't find those things necessary with Lapua. If it was lesser brass such as Winch. or Rem. I might. With the last batch of Winchester brass that I bought for my son's new .243, I chamfered the mouths and uniformed the pockets and they were then ready to load. I had maybe 2 or 3 pieces that needed the necks ironed out and I did that with the Lee collet neck die.

The last batch of brass I bought for one of my own rifles was Nosler and it comes basically fully prepped. The flash holes are deburred, the mouths chamfered, the lengths are all the same and it's weight sorted to +- .5 grs. The primer pockets don't look like they need anything done to them either. This may become my brass of choice from here on out. I really like it so far.

I must be off the deep end here. All I do is load em up with a medium powered load and fire form them. Then they get resized enough to enter the chamber, primer pocket cleaned, trimmed etc.

I guess I'm pretty anal about my brass prep, but hey, I enjoy it!

I full length resize all new brass. At the very least, the case mouths all get round. Also, this procedure doesn't push shoulders back on unfired brass, but it does allow the case to be fully supported when the expander comes back out. This helps keep things concentric.

I firmly believe in uniforming flash holes. Out of 100 new cases, most of them will be just fine, but there are always some of them that have genuine trap doors attached. This affects ignition. Since consistency is what accuracy is all about, this is a critical step for me. No more unexplained "fliers" from an otherwise good group at the range.

I trim all cases to the same length as the shortest case in the batch, then deburr inside and out.

Now I'm ready to prime and load.

After the first fireforming, I tumble the brass for an hour or so, decap with a universal decapping die, uniform the primer pockets (cleaning them at the same time), and partial full length resize until about half of the neck is sized. The shoulders are not set back. Then I trim brass again to the length of the shortest case, and deburr.

The brass should now be uniform. Now all I have to do is weigh my brass and sort it into groups.

This is for my basic hunting cartridges. For my wildcats, Ackley Improved cartridges, and everything 6mm and smaller I get out the arbor press and really get anal. Next I weigh and sort bullets............