I've read the previous posts re neck turning but they all seem to refer to factory chambers.

If you were having a very accurate rifle built on a trued action with a Krieger barrel and were primarily going to shoot deer and small furry things with it would you bother with a tight neck in a 243?

As far as I can see it will take an amount of time to prepare the brass after which apart from an inability to use factory loads the main issue will be load development.

Check out Varmint Al's reloading page. He has lots of information on tight necks.

http://www.cctrap.com/~varmint/ahunt.htm

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Davis Chase

Absolutely yes.

1894,
If you are shooting bench rest competition, neck turning may decrease you 10 shot average group size from .220" to .210". This is accomplished through controlling the concentricity of the case neck. However, when shooting deer and little furry things, in a rifle which is suited to this activity. (not bolted onto a bench with a fixed 36X scope) This difference is completely un-noticeable. All that you have accomplished is eat up several hours of time. The vast majority of bench rest techniques have no practical application in a hunting or even a competition rifle. (How many High Power or Palma shooters do you know that neck turn?) Your best bet is to purchase quality brass (Norma, RWS, etc are already very good as is) and skip the effort of trying to remanufacture your brass like the bench rest crowd does.

If you want the last word in accuracy, I'd go with a tight neck chamber done by someone who really knows how and has the proper tools to produce a truly concentric chamber. You will then have to turn the necks of the brass to fit. For example in my tight neck 6ppc I have 20, 220 Russian cases which I have neck turned and shoot regularly. They last often 15-20 reloadings. This thing shoots in the .1's.
Turned necks make a difference in my experience only with really really good chambers and then not much maybe .1-.2 inch improvement max. You can readily make a good gun shoot .5 inch groups or better with standard necks and for small furry things this is more than enough out to 300yrds or so. For a standard .243 win chamber don't waste your time.Been there done that!Good luck-Rob

Neck turning has it place, but it is not in a hunting rifle. I shoot competitive BR and neck turn for a 6 PPC and 308 Win. Both rifles will shoot into the 1's when I read the conditions correctly.

However, both of these rifles are for competition. On the other hand, neck turning for a factory chamber is a waste of time. All you do is make the neck to chamber clearence more severe.

As another post pointed out, getting the proper chamber cut for the brass being used is the key to long brass life and bullets grouping tightly. I and fellow BR shooters have gotten well over 60+ firing on a case in our 6 PPC's. Basically, 20 cases will last the life of a competitive barrel, 1500-3000 rounds.

But back to the point, MOC (minute of critter) is easily obtained without turning necks!

Buy good brass ie Lapua and go shoot your barrel out.

Ciao

Mike

Lets say your shooting 1 M.O.A @ 100yrs that's about 1"+ (right). At 200yrs = 2"+
and so on. Most of us can shoot well better than 1 M.O.A, but can your gun and ammo? Maybe I got that backwards, Your gun and ammo are great, we all have our moments. :~/

Lets just say we can all shoot a good 1/2MOA
on any average day. So if my math is near correct (not precise) @ 800yrs that would be about a 4" margin of shooting error.

You will more or likely hit a deer, but how about a P-dog?

Shooting at a 8" P-Dog at 800 yrs. aiming dead center could be a near miss.

I have the attitude that almost everything helps, and nothing hurts.

TGW

The builder can certainly chamber. If we are only talking 0.1/0.2 I will take the main consensus and not bother as I only want to acheive 3/8" 3 shot groups. Seeing as my normal custom mausers with normal hunting reamers, rem brass and Lee dies can all go .5-.75 I hope this should suffice. I might just go ask for tight factory? with Lapua brass and quality dies.

[This message has been edited by 1894 (edited 11-28-2001).]

I would not have a tight 0 tolerence chamber on a real hunting rifle, it will gain nothing worthwhile and cause you problems in the field sooner or later...

Neck sizing has no place on a hunting rifle where function is the primary concern and accuracy is secondary..1" is fine on a varmint or deer rifle...

I have a 6x45 with a zero neck and it shoots fantastic groups with certain bullets in the .200 catagory and I can reload it without dies if I have to, but its kind of a pain and some day I'll open the neck up a couple of thousands and the groups to .400 probably...

Its ok for tinkering types that like to kid themselves or sho nuff bench rest fanatics, looking for a tenth..

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

First off in a caliber like the 243 the advantage of a tight neck is debatable. The importance of neck turning if you want the best accuracy out of the rifle is also debatable but those who think it will do no good in a standard dia neck are wrong!
Chamber concentricity and alignment and the concentricity and alignment of the ammunition used are more important than the actual neck dimension. A standard chamber will be more tolerant of crooked ammunition but will still perform better with ammunition that is perfectly straight. You can't achieve this without case necks that are concentric.
Generally speaking if I were building a 243 for hunting and varmint use I would not use a tight neck but for a varmint/target rifle I might.
It is entirely possible to build a 1/4 minute rifle in without the tight neck as long as the chamber is straight and concentric and the throat dimensions are suited to the bullet.
Right now I am building myself a rifle for varmint and target use. I am fitting 2 barrels. The "coyote" barrel is in 6mm Rem with a standard neck and throated for the 85 to 95 grain bullets I will use in it. The target barrel is an 8 inch twist and will be chambered in 6 BR with a 266 neck for use in "F" class competition. The 6BR would be entirely suitable for both purposes but I think the 6mm Rem is more likely to feed well from the M70 magazine. Since it is not uncommon for me to miss that first shot at the coyote feeding is important so that I can quickly miss the second! The necks will be turned in both cases. The 6 Rem because it will shoot better and the 6 BR because it is mandated by the neck dimension and because it will shoot better. When I have the 6mm Rem ready to shoot I'll fire some groups with untouched and neck turned brass and report. In the unlikely event that the neck turned brass does not perform better I will admit it and brace myself for considerable ridicule from Ray Atkinson and others! Regards, Bill.

1894,A standard target chamber will work. But best accuracy is obtained by doing two (2)things. Neck turning and the use of Redding full length resizing type s bushing dies. You must do both. In a standard factory chamber, u only size part of the neck, the unsized part of the brass neck expands to the chamber, centering the round.This way u can use factory ammo or custom fit your ammo.For me, shooting a 40x rifle, fire forming brass will average .75". I then full length resize with a rcbs die w/ expander, turn brass w/ lyman. This firing will average .600". The next loading, i use the Redding bushing die without the expander, these will average in the .400" This is in 243 win. caliber. My Rem model 600 243 win. factory rifle shoots better also using this method, but will only average 1" groups which is an inprovement of about 1/4" Hope this helps 243winxb

Tight necks can be a problem and can limit your loading density as well as velocity. That is what I have found out in my custom made falling block rifle in 30-40 Krag. The neck has to outside turned after each sizing (just to be able to chamber the round again after reloading it) and brass life is short as the neck gets to thin to create good neck tension. I have found that Nosler ballistic tips which are boattails seem to seat better and chamber better than flat base bullets.They are also a standard .308 and when measuring others they tend to run .308 to .3085 to .309 as they are not completely round

I think that having the chamber made too tightly can lead to some problems as having a factory chamber. I am considering sending my rifle back to have the chamber reamed out to fit my ammunition. This is my first try with a BR type rifle, but I am getting an education.

I have to agree with the folks that said tight chambers and neck turning have no real value afield. That said, I do turn necks. Why? 'cause I spend a lot more time at the shooting bench than afield and shooting fat groups ain't fun. I am not a very good shot to begin with and I find neck turning is one thing that will give me a measurable return for my time.
I would not have a rifle made that required neck turning for the round to fit however. Too many things could go wrong to my way of thinking. My neck turning is done to clean up and uniform the necks.

One other thing about turned necks is that if your rifle's neck is sloped (most of them are), then turning will drive you to drinking. I suspect Chainsaw's '97 suffers from this, as does mine. HTH, Dutch.

Leeper,
For the record I did not say neck turning would not improve accuracy, I said it wouldn't make a lot of practical difference in a "hunting rifle" and could impede function, the most important part of a hunting rifle...

There is a place for neck reaming, but not in factory rifles, and if you feel its necessary to trim necks to uniformity in factory chambers have at it but in reality your probably causing the brass to be over worked in those sloppy chambers...

At best I think neck reaming should be left to benchrest and perhaps some varmint hunting guns..the difference is there, no doubt, but is .200 improvement or so really critical to even varmint hunting, I personally doubt it

I , of course, will be interested in your results in your custom rifle and I suspect neck reaming will improve accuracy, but to less degree than you might expect, as so many factors are involved, its hard to know where a lot of these changes actually come from...My benchrest days were a real eye opener.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com