I am having a great deal of trouble seating my 165g cast lead flat nose bullets in my 30-30 cases. I am shaving a great amount of lead and the case mouth is often buckling because of it. Is there a flairing die for 30-30's it would solve the problem. Seafire have you had any experence with Blue Dot and lead bullets in a 30-30? Currently I am using 12.5g of AA5744.

Scout Master 54

In my model 64, I turn the outside necks to allow for the larger dia. bullets. .311 as opposed to .308. I don't believe your problem is neck thickness though. Sounds like your expander is not opening up th neck far enough. You might consider a Sinclair expander die with an oversize mandrel.

What you need is a Lyman M die. It opens the neck and flares the mouth slightly. The amount of flare is adjustable. You want to flare it only enough to allow the cast bullet to start in the case. Too much flare will lead to cracked case mouths. M dies for 30 cal come in either Long or Short to cover every cartridge from 300 Savage to 300 H&H. I don't know which you'll need but I'd guess Short.
Midway, Grafs and probably every other reloading supply house carries them.

Agree with Mark's suggestion as a long term cure.

Meanwhile, take a large Tapered Punch, slip it in the Casemouth and give it a slight Tap. That will provide a temporary fix, cure the shaving and keep the kids in ammo until the M Die arrives. Of course you need to make sure the end of the Punch isn't so long that it reaches the inside of the Casehead, but I'd imagine that is obvious.

Best of luck to you.

Get an "M" die from Lyman with a .308" or .311" expanding plug in it (depending on the diameter of the cast bullet you are loading), and "bell" the case mouths just like you would when loading ammo for straight-walled pistol cases. Now seat the bullets to the correct depth. Then, apply the crimp as a separate, final step. (To do this, you back off the seating plug and screw the die into the press slightly further, just the amount needed to apply the crimp with no contact between the seating screw and the bullet nose at the top of the press stroke.)

Basically, what it amounts to is that loading a cast bullet IN ANY KIND OF CASE requires that you use the same procedures that you use when loading any kind of a bullet into straight-walled cases like the .45 Colt, 38/55, .45/70, etc.

As Purcell says, use the minimum amount of bell you can get away with and not shave lead off the bullets!

I figured I needed some kind of expanding die. My bullets are sized to .3090 with a gas check as my bore in my old 94 mikes .3084. I'll try the Lyman M die, is it a seperate item or part of their FL set? Thanks

Scout Master 54

Take your de-burring tool and chamfer the inside of your case necks with it. Lets the bullet slide in easier. You only need to do this once to each case.

Scout Master 54:

I had the same problem, and I actually talked to RCBS and they just sent me a die that flares the mouth of the case, from their cowboy action die set... that ended the problems....

As far as the Blue Dot question.... Yes I did try it in the 30/30 with cast 165 grain FN bullets.....
Used anywhere from 6 to 12 grains of it to duplicate the old Lead 30/30 loads.. accuracy was pretty decent.... HOwever....

I have also tried SR 4759 in it and I have to recommend it hands down in the 30/30 for accuracy...10 to 18 grains.....It is the most accurate powder I have tested in my "problem" child 30/30 ever....

I also have to compliment your involvement with scouting.. I am involved also.... committee chair for the Cub Scout Pack for the last two years and then my son has bridged into Boy Scouts this past spring, so I am now also involved at the troop level.... summer camp is in 2 weeks so I am taking the week off to go up to camp with 3 other adults and 21 or 22 boys....

Good luck with the suggestions...

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by Scout Master 54:
I figured I needed some kind of expanding die. My bullets are sized to .3090 with a gas check as my bore in my old 94 mikes .3084. I'll try the Lyman M die, is it a seperate item or part of their FL set? Thanks

Scout Master 54

"M" dies are individually purchased items. I have two, a long and a short one, and a number of different diameter expander plugs that I use interchangeably in them. I shoot cast bullets in a number of different cartridges, both the straight-wall & bottleneck type.... Regardless of cartridge, for velocities up to 2200 FPS and perhaps higher (in some rounds), there is no need or advantage to shooting jacketed bullets. The .30/30 is a great example of a cartridge that just doesn't need a jacketed bullet for ANY use...

Thanks all for the help. I tried the chamfer thing first but it was no help. But I derived a solution from all of your posts. I have a set of 7.62 X 39mm dies. I just bumped the case mouth in the FL die and the .311" expander belled the case mouth just enough, I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner.

Thanks Sea Fire for your reply. I've been in Scouting longer than I care to admit, keep it up with your son; some day you'll both look back on it as some of the bast days of your lives. There is no better orginization in my opinion to instill values in our young people. My son made Eagle 2 yrs ago and is now off to college. I work in many capacities in our council / troop my favorite is as assistant shooting sports director and I certify NRA Instructors to assist with our shooting sports program. This summer I'll be teaching trap shooting at the National Jamboree at Ft. AP Hill, VA. Thanks and I'll give your loads a try.

Scout Master 54

You might try 3031 powder. I found 21 grains and a 31141 bullet worked great. Way under 1" at 50 yards. My best groups were about 3/8". I used the bullets unsized, .312". Make them out of wheel wheights. The key is to make them fit the throat, not the bore. If gas blows by a the throat the accuracy is lost. Also check the fit of the bore riding sction in the bore. It should be a press fit, not sloppy. Yes you do need to expand the case mouths.

quote:

Originally posted by Scout Master 54:
Thanks all for the help. I tried the chamfer thing first but it was no help. But I derived a solution from all of your posts. I have a set of 7.62 X 39mm dies. I just bumped the case mouth in the FL die and the .311" expander belled the case mouth just enough, I don't know why I didn't think of it sooner.Scout Master 54

Good thinking! If you have acess to dies in several diferent calibers, it is often possible to do something like you did in this case, and avoid having to buy different items. For example, I have a set of .308 Win. dies for the Lyman 310 tool, and several adaptors to allow them you be used in a 7/8-14 size press. There's a .308" and a .311" expander plug with this set, and I have been able to reload .300 Savage, .30/30 Win., .303 Savage, 7.65X53mm, 7.62X54R, .303 British, .30/40 Krag, .308 Win., and .30/'06 with these dies.... A set of 310 tool 6.5X50mm Arisaka dies lets me load all non-magnum 6.5mm rounds as well. I used to load .243 Win. with a set of 6mm/.284 dies, etc. Neck size only, of course......