The Accurate Reloading Forums
Question on O.A.L. and Sizing
15 June 2010, 18:37
Jager100Question on O.A.L. and Sizing
I am new at reloading. Just set up my reloading bench and worked up my first load in 300 WinMag. I loaded 5 round lots. Each increasing by .5g from start to max with R22 and 180g Accubonds. Headed to the range with my new chronograph. I have 2 questions for the experts.
I read about 10 books and watched 5 videos before I started. None seam to cover these.
1) I have read that you want to seat the bullet just off the lands. I did not do this as I would have been way over the O.A.L. listed in the Nosler book. Is there a danger in exceeding the OAL or is it just to make sure the round functions in all rifles? Better safe than sorry when climbing the learning curve.
2)I fully sized all my cases. If I am going to shoot the ammo out of the same rifle, should I buy a neck sizing die? It would seem that this would make a more acuurate round and make the cases last longer.
Thanks
David
15 June 2010, 21:58
rcamugliaHi Jager,
If you use the "Find" button at the top of the post, you can ask about and get lots of information in previous threads that will answer your questions.
This is a common question for starters and I think that is the reason you've had no replies.
quote:
Originally posted by Jager100:
I1) I have read that you want to seat the bullet just off the lands. I did not do this as I would have been way over the O.A.L. listed in the Nosler book. Is there a danger in exceeding the OAL or is it just to make sure the round functions in all rifles? Better safe than sorry when climbing the learning curve.
The OAL listed in the manuals is a length that supposedly will fit in any manufactured rifle. Your gun is an individual and there is no additional danger from loading closer to the lands as long as you start at a low or medium charge and work up watching for pressure signs. That being said you do not want to get too close to the lands, like in closer than .020" or you may run into problems.
quote:
Originally posted by Jager100:
2)I fully sized all my cases. If I am going to shoot the ammo out of the same rifle, should I buy a neck sizing die? It would seem that this would make a more acuurate round and make the cases last longer.
Thanks
David
Neck sizing may or may not be more accurate depending upon other variables. The best method is to Partial Full Length Resize for a snug fit but this is not possible until your case has fully expanded which may take 3 or 4 firings. During that time your case dimensions are in flux.
It is also not possible that if you full length sized new cases that you did anything other than resize the necks since new case dimensions are so much smaller than your chamber that setting your die to full length size did not size the case body or push the shoulder back (in all probability assuming that you have some headspace and your die is not defective).
After you fire your cases for the first time then you need to set your die to where it just touches the shell holder with the ram raised. Size a case and see if it creates a crush fit. If it does not then load and shoot your cases again. If it does then adjust your die down a little at a time until the crush fit just barely decreases. In all likelihood you will not get a crush fit from setting your die down to the shell holder and sizing the case for 3 or 4 firings.
Confusing I know, but it will become clear as you progress. Meanwhile read all you can and ask questions as needed, we don't mind.
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16 June 2010, 06:22
steve4102quote:
is it just to make sure the round functions in all rifles??
Bingo!
SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must
be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as 1) magazine length (space), 2) freebore-lead dimensions of
the barrel, 3) ogive or profile of the projectile and 4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
16 June 2010, 06:25
steve4102OK, Woods, you beat me again, dam your fast.
17 June 2010, 10:09
NakihunterThe OAL should be adequate to fit in the magazine & also not jam in the lands of your rifle.
If you plan to hunt with that ammo, I would suggest that you seat bullets at least 0.020" off the lands so that they feed and extract reliably. Seating close to or even touching the lands is usually a recommendation for varmint or target loads that look for very high levels of accuracy / precision.
The recommendation for Barnes X & XBT bullets is to seat them 0.050" off the lands.
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick."
24 June 2010, 19:17
Jager100Can you explain a bit better "crush fit" ?
quote:
Originally posted by woods:
quote:
Originally posted by Jager100:
I1) I have read that you want to seat the bullet just off the lands. I did not do this as I would have been way over the O.A.L. listed in the Nosler book. Is there a danger in exceeding the OAL or is it just to make sure the round functions in all rifles? Better safe than sorry when climbing the learning curve.
The OAL listed in the manuals is a length that supposedly will fit in any manufactured rifle. Your gun is an individual and there is no additional danger from loading closer to the lands as long as you start at a low or medium charge and work up watching for pressure signs. That being said you do not want to get too close to the lands, like in closer than .020" or you may run into problems.
quote:
Originally posted by Jager100:
2)I fully sized all my cases. If I am going to shoot the ammo out of the same rifle, should I buy a neck sizing die? It would seem that this would make a more acuurate round and make the cases last longer.
Thanks
David
Neck sizing may or may not be more accurate depending upon other variables. The best method is to Partial Full Length Resize for a snug fit but this is not possible until your case has fully expanded which may take 3 or 4 firings. During that time your case dimensions are in flux.
It is also not possible that if you full length sized new cases that you did anything other than resize the necks since new case dimensions are so much smaller than your chamber that setting your die to full length size did not size the case body or push the shoulder back (in all probability assuming that you have some headspace and your die is not defective).
After you fire your cases for the first time then you need to set your die to where it just touches the shell holder with the ram raised. Size a case and see if it creates a crush fit. If it does not then load and shoot your cases again. If it does then adjust your die down a little at a time until the crush fit just barely decreases. In all likelihood you will not get a crush fit from setting your die down to the shell holder and sizing the case for 3 or 4 firings.
Confusing I know, but it will become clear as you progress. Meanwhile read all you can and ask questions as needed, we don't mind.
24 June 2010, 20:43
Ol` JoeNot Woods, but the term "crush fit" relates to the cartridge shoulder being slightly long and contacting the chambers shoulder area resulting in some amount of force being required to fully close the bolt.
In essence you are finishing the sizing operation in your rifles chamber in place of the die where it should be done. This can be rough on the bolt lugs if excessive and is not generally recommended. You want your cartridge to chamber at a point where you "just feel" the cartridge as the bolt closes, or better yet where it just goes away.
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24 June 2010, 23:58
TailgunnerYou don't learn to drive (safely) by first jumping into a NHRA Pro Stock and heading into downtown NYC, so why would you want to start your reloading carrier by using advanced techniques?
Follow along with the book until you have worked up a few different loads for 2-3 different rifles and put several hundred of your reloads down range.
Than, once you have gained some experance in the arcane art of "reading primers" and learning what to look for, start playing with the "advanced" techniques.
IOW you gotta learn to walk before you learn to run (and your still in the crawling stage)
25 June 2010, 00:09
fredj338quote:
Originally posted by Jager100:
I am new at reloading. Just set up my reloading bench and worked up my first load in 300 WinMag. I loaded 5 round lots. Each increasing by .5g from start to max with R22 and 180g Accubonds. Headed to the range with my new chronograph. I have 2 questions for the experts.
I read about 10 books and watched 5 videos before I started. None seam to cover these.
1) I have read that you want to seat the bullet just off the lands. I did not do this as I would have been way over the O.A.L. listed in the Nosler book. Is there a danger in exceeding the OAL or is it just to make sure the round functions in all rifles? Better safe than sorry when climbing the learning curve.
2)I fully sized all my cases. If I am going to shoot the ammo out of the same rifle, should I buy a neck sizing die? It would seem that this would make a more acuurate round and make the cases last longer.
Thanks
David
Ideally yes, seating 0.01"-0.02" off the lands is supposed to be ideal, but all rifles are diff & the round must feed from the magazine first, that is where I start when working a new bullet. The only danger to exceeding OAL is jambinginto the lands & raising pressures or not feeding from the mag. In many single shto rifles, MAX OAL can be impossible to obtain.
As to neck sizing dies, I like them, but for a hunting rifle, partial FL sizing works just as well & gives longer case life than FL sizing w/o buying extra dies.
LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT!
quote:
Originally posted by Tailgunner:
You don't learn to drive (safely) by first jumping into a NHRA Pro Stock and heading into downtown NYC, so why would you want to start your reloading carrier by using advanced techniques?
Follow along with the book until you have worked up a few different loads for 2-3 different rifles and put several hundred of your reloads down range.
Than, once you have gained some experance in the arcane art of "reading primers" and learning what to look for, start playing with the "advanced" techniques.
IOW you gotta learn to walk before you learn to run (and your still in the crawling stage)
+1
Get some experience first. The learn to walk before you run adage is good advice.
muck