Gonzo:

Well Said!

aka: the stuff everyone loves trashing. Like Lee dies, Sierra hunting bullets and Savage rifles. Seems like there's tons of people ready to bash these products.

Sure you can do better. But if you take a look at your ROI you'll see that all the extra cash you dropped doesn't fully come back to you. Take someone who just bought this combo of three and shows up at the range, chances are he'll do better than 1MOA right of the bat, and will continue to hit on other loads that do as well or better. Then there's the guy with the fancy dies, Nosler Competition or Berger VLDs and a $3,000 custom rifle. Maybe he'll shoot better, but at what cost?

I don't yet own a Savage, but the day will come. And when it does I'll wager that the Lee dies and Sierra bullets I use for reloading will make me a very happy shooter/hunter. (As long as I remember that a light GameKing in a Magnum rifle isn't a good combination)

Just FWIW. I've been sitting in traffic more often recently and started wondering why people sh*t on perfectly good equipment. I think it's post-purchase rationalization. Everyone wants to feel like a savvy consumer, but seeing the Savage/Lee/Sierra guy banging out sub-MOA groups can make that difficult. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Any comments and opinions are more than welcome.

Well said. I used to be embarrased to admit it, but on one of my rifles is a Tasco scope. I can shoot groups with that gun/scope that are just as tight as some of my guns with Leupold scopes. Kind of reminds me of how women buy expensive cloths when the same thing at K-Mart is 1/4 the price and probably fits better and is more comfortable.

Yeah, and those country simple gals are a lot more sport too!

Nothing wrong with Savage rifles and Lee dies. I own both and they have worked great for me.
As far as Sierras bullets specifically for big game...well if ou do not have anything nice to say.......

Today I found a nice Walnut blank for $20.00 that Im going to make a custom stock out of and put it on a $100.00 Savage Mark II 22. If I manage to do a good job on the stock it will be a real nice rifle, as Savage has already done their part very well.

I also like Sierra bullets and Lee collet dies. I think the Sierras hold up on par with any other standard bullet and usually shoot a bit better than most. I wish Sierra would make a poly tip bullet. That would have to be one accurate sob.

I'm thinkinking of buying aCZ527 America classic in .222. I see you shoot the Varmint in .223 . Does it serve you well?
Be so kind and tell me what you've experienced with it. Thanks roger

Gonzo, I own one of the high dollar custom rifles you speak of. It subsists on a steady diet of 190 gr Sierra HPBTs. None of the animals I have shot, or that others have shot using my rifle and loads, have indicated that they are too good for anything except Barnes X or some other bullet that costs $1+ each. I have several sets of dies in the caliber, .300WSM and my Lee fl sizer produces cases equal in concentricity to my Forster BR sizer, and better than any others I have. My Forster Ultra Seater is, however, better than the Lee unit but is only seen as ranges become very long.

As for the accuracy of Savage rifles, you will not find me badmouthing them. I believe a stock Savage M12 still holds it's class record at 600 yd BR, something under 2". Stan at Shooting Straight Guns and Ammo in Birmingham, Ala will tell you all about it and show you the rifle if you are ever in the area. Not all Savages are that accurate and if you get one that shoots .9 moa you either live with it, trade it, or pay a riflesmith to improve it. If my rifle would not do better than .33 moa my riflesmith would determine the problem and correct it with no additional cost.

Hey, Gonzo & the rest of these guys:
I could not have said it better! My favorite pastime is irritating people with my H&R Handi rifles, homemade reduced loads, and homemade targets. When people see the groups I can get, they usually make some weird remark like "they oughta send you after Bin Laden". I take that as a compliment.
Loner

Gonzo,
I own, and love, all of those three... well, perhaps LOVING is a long word for lee dies... but i've got em.

I have a savage bolt action pistol that is, in my opinion, at least as nice looking, and better shooting, than pistols costing double to 10x the price (rem to whicita)

Sierra bullets,(225 PH) in my savage rifle (99-358) loaded with lee dies (358 win, when they were 1/4 the price of the next 358 dies) have killed more game under my watch (me or my friends using that rifle) than anything I have, other than a mossberg 22. (there's a mudduck, and I have 4 of them, inclding a match rifle)

ugly is as ugly does.... then again, I drive a dodge...

jeffe

Call me the "anti-snob." I prefer to look for value in what I buy, and that sometimes includes Lee Dies, etc. I frequent the local Harbor Freight for tools which will not see heavy, regular use yet will perform the simple job-at-hand just as well as items costing three times as much.

Now, I will pay considerably more for a shooting tool ( dies, press, firearm etc. ) if I am convinced that is the only way to get the result I want. Well, let me amend that by noting that I've succumbed to a few rifles just 'cause I had a bad case of "the wants" whereas something less would have worked as well...we've all been there, I think.

There appears to be as much of a snob element in the shooting fraternity as anywhere else. My experience, in general, has been that those that look down their noses at what others use aren't all that good with the tools they are using themselves.

I don't have a problem with Lee dies, I own several. I have an old Savage 340 stuck away in the back of the gun safe that will still ventilate deer with "thurty-thurty" holes. However, I use bread & butter bullets for most of my shooting--Hornady Interlocks and Nosler Partitions. Not the most expensive, not the cheapest, but they penetrate, hold together, and are more than accurate enough in most of my rifles.

bartsche,
The CZ I'm shooting has been fantastic, it's the one with the Laminate stock. As you've probably seen from other posts on this rifle, the action is a little rough at first. The mag's feed lips needed a little polishing and after about 100 round the bolt's travel had slicked up nicely. Accuracy has been fantastic, after shooting various cheap Winchester and American Eage ammo (FMJs) I tried some Black Hills 50gr VMax (Moly-coated) and it just loves putting 3-5 shots into 2 holes.

Ruffhewn,
All that I said is certainly not meant to suggest that I wouldn't love a $3,000 rifle for myself. I'm confident that you're very happy with your purchase and don't look down on the Savage shooters among us.

What gets me thinking is that some think the extra money will come back to them in direct proportion to the investment. When they inevitably find that's not the case they have to start rationalizing. Long as you laid your money down with both eyes open you'll be happy.

Thanks to all for responding. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Ruff:
Good to hear you are around, haven't heard from you for a while.

Although you love your spendy rifle there guy, I know you are a former Marine, and I am know you are a guy that can shoot right up to the ability the rifle offers.

It just saddens to me to see when some of these new people equate price and trendy as having anything to do with their personal ability to shoot. They need to learn to master a Not So Good rifle, with NOT so Trendy bullets, before they can master the full value of the Good Stuff.

Many of us can shoot a lot, and never get to that point.

As I say about myself, (we have a large local range, one of the largest on the west coast.) I can 'out shoot' about 95 % of the guys that ever show up on this range, as I shoot a lot:

However, the 5 % that Out shoot me,.... well it is down right embarassing!

I think that probably applies to a lot of those of us that frequent this forum. JMHO.

Good to see ya around Ruff!

Practically all my dies are Lee. Why? They produce ammunition that is indistinguishable from any other well loaded ammunition. They do tend to have internal burrs, but I know that, and just plan to spend 5 minutes cleaning them up. The difference in cost is worth my time.

My press is a Lee. I did make an $11 mod to it, so it is now strong enough to load all the ammo that I will ever want, or that my children and grandchildren will ever want. Nobody has yet pointed out to me any benefit I would receive by paying more.

Some of my scopes are Tasco. There is no optical magic that lets one manufacturer make a scope that cannot be duplicated by others. Optics is a very mature technology. I do have some nicer scopes, and I know what they deliver that made me willing to part with more money. But the Tascos are quite adequate for my intended purpose.

Reading Harold Vaughn's book on rifle accuracy, it seems to me that Savage's barrel nut is a clever, inexpensive innovation that puts them ahead of the pack in avoiding "fliers" when the barrel heats up. So, quite possibly, they are a step ahead of the rest in that department.

I have no problem paying for something that offers more performance. I have a big problem paying for something that costs more, and offers no increase in performance.