I would like to load a Remington 300 gr. HP or possibly one of the Oregon laser cast bullets of 300 or 350 grs. to relatively low velocities in my Marlin 1895CB 45-70.

I tried some VV N130 (37.5-41.5 grs) with the Remington bullet but I experienced sooty blackened cases. That wouldn't bother me much except I also had some vertical stringing (6-8"@100 yds). I'm not sure if it was the load or me. I can shoot a post type front sight into less than 2" with my swiss K-31 but I'm not a fan of bead type front sights and wonder if that was the problem (I'm switching to a post sight). I'll check the loads through my scoped Ruger #1 and see if this is the case.

Anyway I would like to come up with a couple of loads, one in the 1100-1400 range and the other in the 1600-1800 range. Accuracy is a must, I want to use it for Cowboy Silhouette. The heavy load for the rams and the light one for everything else.

Powders that I have considered are 3031, imr4198, even unique and I just read about Trail boss. I would prefer to go with one of the first two if they shot well at those velocities and don't blacken my brass.

Thanks in advance.

For cast bullets, consider ~ 13 grains of Unique. With 350-400 grain cast (gas check or not) you'll be in the 1100- 1200 fps range.

I have shot that load with 330 grain HP Lyman 457122 ("Gould bullet), and it is quiet and accurate. It comes close to matching a blackpowder load. Perfectly powerful enough for hunting.

Jacketed bullets- I'd look at 4198. You can go to the various reloading websites (IMR, Hercules/alliant, Hodgdon etc) and check out the loads for a 1600 fps level load.

As I understand it, blackening of brass comes from not having the brass fully expand in the chamber-permitting gas/powder to get in between the case and the chamber-typically associated with reduced loads. Faster burning powder (Unique, Herco, 2400, SR 4759, Reloader 7, 4198, ...from ~faster to slower) can help by generating higher pressures (in safe ranges) at the MV you seek.

Faster ("pistol") powders that are BALL powders are NOT recommended for reduced loads. Use extruded or flake powder (reduced loads of ball powder can give pressure spikes).


Haven't used Trailboss, but it is in keeping with having "faster" burn rate than the rifle powders (faster than 4198) but bulky enough to fill cases more than 1/2 way so you can double charge the case, for safety). It should work, as should several powders.

I load 30 gr. of AA 5744 under a 350 gr. Berry plated bullet for a very pleasant load in my Ruger #1 and my guide gun. Cloverleafs at 50 yards and just a fun load to shoot.

Unique, or even better, for accuracy... SR 4759...

I don't own or shoot a 45/70, but I do have and shoot a 444 Marlin, which is close enough....

SR 4759 has become my 'to go to powder' for the 444....

I have also found any load data published for a 44 Rem Mag, works well and gives almost the exact same performance in a 444... I suspect that it would be close to the same with a 45/70.....

good luck,
cheers
seafire

You can't go wrong with unique for a light load.
Here's a webpage with some loads.
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/4570g300_dat.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Cookselk:
I would like to load a Remington 300 gr. HP or possibly one of the Oregon laser cast bullets of 300 or 350 grs. to relatively low velocities in my Marlin 1895CB 45-70.

I tried some VV N130 (37.5-41.5 grs) with the Remington bullet but I experienced sooty blackened cases. That wouldn't bother me much except I also had some vertical stringing (6-8"@100 yds). I'm not sure if it was the load or me. I can shoot a post type front sight into less than 2" with my swiss K-31 but I'm not a fan of bead type front sights and wonder if that was the problem (I'm switching to a post sight). I'll check the loads through my scoped Ruger #1 and see if this is the case.

Anyway I would like to come up with a couple of loads, one in the 1100-1400 range and the other in the 1600-1800 range. Accuracy is a must, I want to use it for Cowboy Silhouette. The heavy load for the rams and the light one for everything else.

Powders that I have considered are 3031, imr4198, even unique and I just read about Trail boss. I would prefer to go with one of the first two if they shot well at those velocities and don't blacken my brass.

Thanks in advance.

One of the lighter loads I use, I found in the old Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets. I use it in my Remington rolling block Pedersoli 'Quigley' gun. 405gr. cast BB, 27gr IMR 4227, 5/8" Tago backing rod for filler(or cotten wad) 1470 f/sec. Has worked well for me.
For a heavier cast bullet load that I use in my Marlin SS Guide model that seems to work well, 325gr cast, GC with 53grs of IMR 3031, 1920 f/sec. Another heavier cast bullet load I'm 'trying' is a 420gr cast GC with 46 gr of IMR 3031, 1650 f/sec. Gotta' watch the C.O.L. if it is to function in a lever action.

I went to the range the other day and tried several loads through the Marlin. It wasn't that cold but a gusty 30 mph+ wind on the 600 yard range was miserable and forced me to go to the more sheltered 50 yard pistol range.

I tried several loads including VV N-130 again, IMR4198 and unique with a Remington 300 grain HP and a Oregon laser cast 300 FP. I stated in my previous post that the VV load strung it's shots vertically and I would try them in my Ruger #1. I fired them in both rifles, the Marlin strung the shots again but the Ruger didn't, don't quite understand that.

Fortunately I found that 33.5 grains of IMR 4198 with the Remington bullet generates 1500 FPS and produced a 1.25" 5 shot group with 4 shots into 0.4". The same bullet and 12.0 grains of Unique produce a similar sized group. I didn't chrono that load. The 12.0 grain load and the Oregon bullet shot not quite as well but still very acceptable and produced 1200 fps.

I would shoot the Unique load and the Remington bullet but I am a bit apprehensive about shooting a jacketed bullet in a long barreled rifle with a reduced load. I think the other two will work for the cowboy silhouette. I tried shooting the gong we have at 200 yards and managed to hit it several times but the wind was horrible. I'll wait till next week and hope the weather holds, not much snow this winter.

thanks again

Does your Ruger #1 have the "Micro-groove" rifling? If so, that could explain the difference. I've always had great success with ol' Frank Marshalls' load of 24gr of 2400 and a RCBS 300gr cast bullet.

I'll have to agree with using 2400 for light loads in the 45-70. In my 1873 Springfield Trapdoor, I use a cast 385 gr w/gascheck and 24.5 gr. of 2400 and a 1/2 gr. of dacron filler on top of the powder. Quite mild and accurate too. Using a peep sight at 100 yards, I consistantly get groups under 2". Book says velocity should be around 1100-1200 fps.

IMR 4198 @ 33.6 with 300 grain Speer HP

I shoot 30gr of IMR 4227 and the Lee 340gr cast bullet in my single shot. To be honest I don't know the speed of it, it shoots so well I don't really care. Just yesterday me and a friend were out plinking at the range and the only targets left standing were charcoal so I called my shot. It may have taken three shots but offhand with iron sights just over 50 yards that big bullet really crushes a briquette.