Hi all, I was looking at some rounds that my Son's Grandpa had loaded for his 30-06 a few years ago. The rounds proved to be very hot in my Son's Rem 721 so we put them aside to give back and worked up our own loads with RL22(165's @ 2730).(Grandpa's rounds had to have the bolt hammered open with a 2x4, the bolt removed and the case pulled from the bolt with vise grips!!) Anyway, I found the rounds after forgetting to give them back and the primers were backing out of the case. I'm sure that I would have noticed this before. Any ideas on this? It's a new one to me.

Grandpa may have been compressing some fine ball powder. It happened to me. roger

If you have excessive head space, you'll get backed out primers. Either he set the shoulders back when sizing, or your rifle has a too deep chamber.

Or maybe the primer pocket is out of specs, from previously loads being too hot for the case??

seafire

or the primers being used could be out of spec...

I had WLR primers back out from new R-P and Win '06 brass from a middle of the road load of 45 grs. H4895 and a 165 NBT. Problem went away using CCI 200's and Federal 210's.

What has headspace to do with a cartridge sitting on a shelf?.
Take Care!

Roger may be onto it.

ANOTHER REASON NEVER TO SHOOT SOMEONE ELSES RELOADS.

(Even well meaning Grandpa's.)

I would destroy the remaining loads to be sure you or anyone else never fires them.

So much for soldered on bolt handles and crappy 721 extractors, huh?

Here's a .308 cartridge "off the shelf" The problem was headspace, but on a M60.

I do believe we're talking loaded rounds here, not fired brass. Heavily compressed powder (easy to do with ball types) can decompress over time. Something's got to move, usually the bullet is pushed forward. If 'ol Gramps seated primers in loose pockets and put a real nice crimp on the bullets, the decompressing powder could possibly wind up pushing the primers backwards rather than the bullets forward.

Excellent picture, Bill. Well done!

I don't believe comprssion could possibly push a primer out, unless that primer pocket was so loose it could be shaken out by hand in which case you could push it back in..but I wouldn't shoot it...

If its a shot round and the primer backs out the only thing it can be is headspace otherwise there would be no place for the primer to go and however much its sticking out is how much headspace the rifle has...

"]I don't believe comprssion could possibly push a primer out, unless that primer pocket was so loose it could be shaken out by hand"

It's a mater of simple hydraulics, Ray. The fine ball powder is acting as a liquid. Go compress a completely full load of 5020 and set them on a shelf for a couple days.If you haven't tried it how can you deny it? belief is one thing experience is another. Of course using new Winchester primers doesn't help either. roger

The Winchester Primers are alittle smaller in diameter than the Federals. They will back out in some cases.

Don't know what kind of primers Grandpa was using but, it sounds like some cases that had been shot alittle hot in the past.

If you ever get reloads from someone else (Hopefully a trust worthy person), you should ask the exact specs of the load (powder, weight, primer, bullet, etc.).

Good Luck!

Reloader

After I seat the bullet in a round that's using a full case load of powder I always stand it up briefly on my workbench to see if it wobbles. I've had compressed loads that will back the primer out a bit, especially if it's not a real tight fit. You don't want to slam the bolt closed on those litle dandies. They will occasionally go off. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I have had lots and lots of compressed loads slowly push the bullet back out again but never the primer. Hmmm - - - How old are the loads? What everybody here is forgetting is that powder does decompose slowly and quite a bit of gas pressure can build up inside the cartridge if the sealing of the component fit is very good or uses a weatherproofing sealant like military ammo. The decomposition is accelerated by an increase of storage temperature, the decomposition is roughly doubled for every increase of 18�F. I have some Finn VPT 7.62x53 (same as 7.62x54R) ammo loaded in 1964 using German powder made in 1939 that is under about 150 psi pressure, measured by epoxying a puncture valve like is used for Freon cans to the brass case with a small volume Bourden type pressure gauge attached, everything filled with Vaseline to prevent the gas from greatly expanding into the internal passages and lowering the pressure reading. The VPT ammo is sealed with a gooey black rubber material like plumber thread sealant putty and the gas can't escape as it is generated. I have yet to see rifle powder push through the flash hole of a cartridge, although I guess it could happen quite easily. Some powders expand when they decompose as well, I had some WW1 Brit .303 back in the early 50's that the powder had expanded in and split the cases, but it did not push through the flash hole. That particular ammo was U.S. or Canadian (that was 50 years ago and memory is a little hazy) contract manufacture and did not use cordite. You could disect one of your cartridges and see if the powder has indeed extruded through the flash hole to push on the primer or you might very carefully try puncturing a cartridge under water and see how much gas escapes. Intriguing!

"""I have had lots of compressed loads push the bullet out but never the primer."""

One more time with feeling!!!! I have compressed ball powders and backed out the primers while seating the bullets some times to the extent that the primer would not allow the cartridge to be removed from the shell holder. Is this what happened to the loads Granpa made? Don't have the foggiest and can't see right now what catagory of defective they fall into matters much. If someone has never seen the Elephant to them ,I guess, it doesn't exist. roger

Hey there, Cal: I'm curious how tightly the primer fit was in the ones that you have had back out. Like I mentioned above I have never had a primer back out of a loaded round and I have used mostly LIGHTLY compressed loads of WC860 and WC872 in the last six years. I have had primers that I didn't seat far enough and I caught them after the load was completed using the same method you use. Out of curiosity what I am going to do is load up a bunch of .308 Win and .30-06 brass I just got with variously compressed loads of WC860 and WC872 with note as to how the primer fit. This ought to be intersting!

I never said elephants don't exist! First there were rumors heard, then there was trumpeting heard, and now I am looking for the herd! Like I said, this ought to be interesting!

Pull the bullets and weigh the charges. It's the only way to be sure.

Been doing school for a couple of days and didn't get back to check this thread.
Yes they are loaded rounds, mixed brass, probably loaded many times. They were about 2 years old and I found them rideing around in the deep pockets of the F-350 front door. I remember the son putting them in there so we wouldn't get them confused with our loads to take back to gramps, but forgot about them. So they have had some higher temps being in the truck for 2 years. I already threw them away. I guess I should have pulled them apart. 2 years ago the primers were seated flush. The powder would rattle inside the case so maybe it was loose primer pocket with decomposeing powder.