I've been using the Lee collet die to neck size my 375H&H brass. It seems like I have had to push pretty hard to get the brass sized to where the bullet has a tight fit.

Unfortunately, when seating a Hornady 300gr RN interlock, 90% of the time upon seating the bullet to the cannelure, the bullet suddenly comes loose in the neck to the point where I can easliy twist it and even push it fully into the case. If i only seat it 50-75% of the way in, it is plenty tight in the neck.

I called Lee to find out what was wrong with the die and the guy asked me what bullet I was using. When I told him 300gr Hornady IL's, he said "I knew you were going to say that."

According to him, the Hornady tapers all the way to the base, so that the very base of the bullet is actually several tenths larger than the diameter just under the cannellure, causing the bullet to overstretch the case neck during seating. When you get the bullet in to the cannellure, the neck has been resized, oversize.

I hung up thinking, "what the hell?" I pulled out my caliper and started measuring bullets. Just below the cannellure, the bullet is half a needle below the .375 mark... and, I'll be damned, at the base the bullet is half a needle above the .375 mark.

When loading some 260gr Nosler Accubonds, there is no problem, so I'm starting to think the guy at Lee is on to something.

Has anyone ever heard of this? Does a Redding neck sizer not care what brand of bullets you use?

Again I say, "what the hell"?

I`ve loaded lots of Hornady bullets in brass sized with a Lee collet die (`06, 708, 223) and never experienced your problem.
That don`t mean Lees wrong, just that I never noticed.


Edited to add:
I just measured with a 0.00005" resolution capable Mitutoyo mic one each;
100gr .257 cal Hornady SP
120gr Hornady .257cal SP
130 gr .277 cal Hornady SP
140gr .277 cal Hornady BTSP
129gr .264 cal Hornady SST
139 gr .284 cal Hornady BTSP

Bases were ~0.0002 smaller then the measurement across the canalure or the same. I am not sure but it appears to my poor eyes there may be a slight displacment of jacket material right at the edges of the canalure. I don`t have a blade mic to try to get around this point.
Any way, I at this moment tend to doubt Lees explaination as to the cause of your problem. I`m sure there are a few others here that can check and verify I`m right or wrong.

I've had loose bullets with cases sized with the Lee Collet Die. It has been said, though I've never done it, that if you want a tighter fit, you need to turn the mandrel of the die with a drill in a piece of fine grit sandpaper and take 1 to 3 thousandths off.

Funny thing; I've used MANY Hornady bullets in cases sized with dies other than the Lee Collet Die and have NEVER had loose bullets.

you might need to anneal your case necks they may have lost their springback.

A lot of bullet have a slight enlargement at the heel and they load fine.
Your story with the collet die is not new.

quote:

you might need to anneal your case necks they may have lost their springback.

Lamar, did that come out right? I would have thought it the other way round. Too much springback might be preventing the necks from sizing properly. Does that make sense or am I missing something? (Apart from my sanity!)

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

quote:

you might need to anneal your case necks they may have lost their springback.

Lamar, did that come out right? I would have thought it the other way round. Too much springback might be preventing the necks from sizing properly. Does that make sense or am I missing something? (Apart from my sanity!)

I believe the problem with hard brass is the collet doesn`t reduce it past its point of elastisity and it remains at a larger then desired state.
A std die reduces the mouth past this point and even if it doesn`t hold to the smalllest diameter it is still smaller then it was prior to resizing.
The expander is there on a std die simply to open the mouth after it has been reduced past the desired point. The collet die tries to reduce the diameter without over doing it and stop at the disired size.

I have heard many people that say the die need shimmed at the base to get the neck tension they need. I have three collet dies and do not find them to be the answer to the question.

I load the 375HH using the Lee Collet die, Hornady 270gr RN and the neck tension is just fine; I use Hornady bullets and Lee collet dies to reload other calibers too and I've never noticed anything similar.....

I had a similar problem with the 200 gr. .358" Hornady RNSP and the 35 Rem. Sizing was done with a Lee FL sizing die. Brass source made no significant difference (I have FC, PMC, R-P, and W-W SUPER brass). I was loading for a bolt-action (Rem. M600), so was not crimping. The solution turned out to be to crimp into the cannelure with the seating die.

BTW, I have not had this problem with these bullets in the 358 Win. or the 35 Whelen, or with Hornady bullets in other calibres, so I suspect that it is related to the thin brass in the neck of the 35 Rem. cases.

Cheers, Al

quote:

I have heard many people that say the die need shimmed at the base to get the neck tension they need.

The ONLY thing such "shimming" can do is lift the area where the neck sizing starts, not make it tighter.

A loose bullet means the neck ID is too large OR the bullet is too small. I've not found the bullets to be a problem, including the .35s.

A large, loose case neck with the Lee Collet Die comes from 1) not pushing down firnly enough (not common, most push too hard and damage the die), 2) neck mandrel not quite small enough, or 3) necks are so work hardened they "spring" up after sising (very common).

I appreciate all the input... the strange thing is that the bullet is plenty tight when seated up to ~1/16" to the start of the cannelure. It's that last little bit travel that seems to end up with a loose round... which almost seems like the base of the bullet is indeed resizing the neck. Again, I am not having this issue with some 260gr Accubonds I just loaded.

I'm beginning to think the guys who suggested the brass is in need of annealing might be onto something.

quote:

Originally posted by mrjulian_1970:
... which almost seems like the base of the bullet is indeed resizing the neck...I'm beginning to think the guys who suggested the brass is in need of annealing might be onto something.

+1

I've used those bullets without any problems in my 375 H&H but I use my RCBS die for seating. I also crimp all my big bores and I've never had a problem with Hornady bullets in either my 375 or my 416 Rigby.

I have run into insufficient bullet tension before with the Lee collet neck sizing dies. Lee makes a smaller mandrel replacement which fixed the problem for me. I have ordered the smaller mandrel for all my Lee collet neck sizing dies.

Jim

MrJ
Is the base of the bullet going below the bottom of the neck? (guessin it is by about 1/16" BTW)
The proper "repair" is to get a standard style die and than tie your collet die to a piece of monofiliment line and use it for a fishing sinker (they arn't heavy enough to anchor duck decoys).
BTW, LEE's response is their normal response to any problem "our product is perfect, it's the rest of the world that's wrong".

if these cases have been neck sized only another thing to look at is if you have a donut in there and the bullet passing will open the necks up from the inside.
and hold it there. then you only have neck tension on the front of the case.'it can still chamber as the donut is aat the neck shoulder junction and pushed to the inside of the case.

Sorry for repeating something I've said before, but I get very consistent results by setting my Lee Collet dies to just BARELY toggle over on my 1970s era Rock Chucker. And I mean JUST barely toggle over. Then locked in place with real locking rings with a set screw, not the o-ring type that comes with the collet die

I know this is not recommended by Lee, but this method guarantees that I get the same amount of force on every stroke. I get better real downrange consistency with this method than any other. And I have never had issues with the neck gripping the bullet too lightly.

I believe the biggest problem with the collet dies is inconsistent force applied on the downstroke, and this seems to eliminate that problem

quote:

Originally posted by RBinNM:
Sorry for repeating something I've said before, but I get very consistent results by setting my Lee Collet dies to just BARELY toggle over on my 1970s era Rock Chucker. And I mean JUST barely toggle over. Then locked in place with real locking rings with a set screw, not the o-ring type that comes with the collet die

I know this is not recommended by Lee, but this method guarantees that I get the same amount of force on every stroke. I get better real downrange consistency with this method than any other. And I have never had issues with the neck gripping the bullet too lightly.

I believe the biggest problem with the collet dies is inconsistent force applied on the downstroke, and this seems to eliminate that problem

I do exactly the same thing and if I need to tighten neck tension I turn the mandrel down a thou or two