I am a keen fan of this calibre.

Some have said, that you should not go above 120g in reloading?

Just skipping to the the brand many regard as the top of the tree, Nosler- list Accubonds at a max of 130g and Partitions at ,140g.

What do most regard as the max bullet grain weight for the Swede, given that 300WSMs are availalbe in Accubonds at 180g+, a seemingly big difference in stopping power.

A lot of people load up to 160 grs bullets with great results in the Swede. Often, the chambers are cut for use with the long round nose bullets, and they sure work well at shorter range - because of their length, they penetrate like anything.

The drawback of the very heavy bullets, is naturally a somewhat modest muzzle velocity. If you intend to do long range shooting with a 6.5x55, a 120 grs may be a good bet - they can often be loaded to 2900 fps or so. 130 or 140 grs bullets are compromises between the two extremes. It really all depends on the application and what your gun likes.

- mike

The caliber comes into its own with the use of the long, slender 140s, and the modest velocity still results in a fairly flat trajectory due to the high BC of the projectiles. After many years of using a number of 6.5mm Swedes (and numerous other medium capacity 6.5mm cartridges), there is -- in my humble opinion -- no better balanced bullet for them than the 140 grainers.

Given a MV of 2500-2800 fps, these bullets, with their attendant high sectional densities, penetrate extremely well and negate the need for premium projectiles. I've had more dropped-in-their-tracks, instant kills with the 6.5/140 combo than with all other cartridges combined, and I do put those bullets to the test as I take quite a few hogs annually here in my home state of Texas.

quote:

Originally posted by HoldenV8:

Some have said, that you should not go above 120g in reloading?

Just skipping to the the brand many regard as the top of the tree, Nosler- list Accubonds at a max of 130g and Partitions at ,140g.

What do most regard as the max bullet .

"Should not go above"--- to me this is an unlearned statement ,drawn from conjecture at best. The use of heavier bullets in the 6.5 x55 is what makes it shine over the also ran .260.

Fred Barnes in the early 60s was playing with 6.5, 190 gr. bullets. I wish I could remember what he said his results were. I do know ,however, he was pleased but didn't think it would be a big seller. roger

Why not go to a 140gr? A good 140gr bullet @ 2700fps is no sloutch & penetration is all you could ask for. Dropping to a 120gr @ 2900fps does little to flatten trajectory & you are giving up penetration. The 129-130gr bullets may be a good compromise though.

120, 125, 129, 140, and the 160's are all good in the SWEDE. Try them and then use the one your rifle likes, it will let you know.

6.5 SWEDE.

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5 SWEDE:
120, 125, 129, 140, and the 160's are all good in the SWEDE. Try them and then use the one your rifle likes, it will let you know.6.5 SWEDE.

roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
The use of heavier bullets in the 6.5 x55 is what makes it shine over the also ran .260.
roger

the arguement over the 260rem is 99.44% bunk.
People bring up the "deep seating depth" and that it "takes up propellant space" and it's a crock.

Deep seating the 260 borders on the irrelevant because there are only a few propellants (N760 and H1000?) where it matters with 140's and who's to say that any particular rifle is going to like those propellants (and ONLY those propellants) anyway?

the differences between the 260 and the 6.5x55 is more of attitude than reality

But on topic...

160gr bullets are past the swede's peak performance envelope.

If I wanted to shoot bullets at 2400fps I'd carry a 30-30.

I LIKE my swede, but I'm not for a moment believing it's the magic sword excalibur

In my considered opinion (and I'll note that I own a swede, two actually...) the greatest handicap that the swede suffers with is it's L O N G throat made to accomodate the ancient 160gr round nose bullets.

This means that they typically don't shoot the lightest bullets for caliber well, some can, but accuracy on a randomly chosen rifle is a crap shoot.

with a short throat the swede could use the 100gr partition (specifically designed by nosler for the 260 and compete on a level playing field against the 25-06 as a
pronghorn cartridge.

THE reason I'd like to shoot 100's in a short throated Swede is that I don't lose my sight picture with 100's, I DO lose it with 120's and 125's, however my swede (the one with the scope) is a 1.75" rifle with the 100's and a 1/2" rifle with the 125 partitions.
It's nice to be able to eyeball the "splash" of impact at 150yds plus

But to get back on point with the original question, if you are shooting a former military swede chances are your rifle will not perform AS well with 120's and is much more likely to be at it's best with 140's (considering accuracy)

That all being said your results may vary because you don't specifically mention what rifle you are using....

AD

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
The use of heavier bullets in the 6.5 x55 is what makes it shine over the also ran .260.
roger

the arguement over the 260rem is 99.44% bunk.
People bring up the "deep seating depth" and that it "takes up propellant space" and it's a crock.

And the horse you rode in on ADG. roger

quote:

Originally posted by HoldenV8:
I am a keen fan of this calibre.
What do most regard as the max bullet grain weight for the Swede, given that 300WSMs are availalbe in Accubonds at 180g+, a seemingly big difference in stopping power.

Altho 6.5m/m 140s and 30 calibre 180s posses similar sectional densities, they have little else in common. The 300 WSM will always be faster and more powerful than the 6.5 Swede.

That said, the 6.5 performs beyond its paper ballistics and is a pleasure to shoot. I own 6 of the buggers and my favorite bullet weight is the 140 grain. Not as fast as lighter bullets, it will maintain its velocity downrange where one needs it -and those heavier slugs arrive with more authority. 160s work well too, and an iron-sighted Swede carbine with that bullet is a force to be reckoned with in the woods. Not only do those long, heavy bullets penetrate like crazy, at normal Swede velocities they negate the need for "premium" bullets. They're good insurance if you use them, but they're not necessary.

Bartsche,

I you can't discuss it on the merits with an arguement consistant with your previous statements then you
should refrain from opening your mouth (or keyboard) and proving my point (and suspicions) for me.

One more time: I HAVE a Swede, two infact.
I DO NOT own a 260rem (nor am I rushing out to buy one)

Yeah, you CAN load 160's in the swede, but for all practical
purpose nobody does.
Could you load a 160 in a 260? Yeah, but why would you want to? what would a 160 RN do that a 140partition can't?

(I expect a whole bunch of dead silence here

I've never actually tried loading 160's because I don't expect to be attacked by a rogue bull elephant in either Pennsylvania or Wyoming (and if I did I wouldn't be carrying a 6.5) 120's would make more sense for Deer or Antelope
and for antelope 100gr bullets even more sense

But the likelihood that his 6.5 will shoot 100gr bullets
or the even lighter varmint bullets well is kinda small.

heavier bullets are pointless when the lighter ones
make exit holes.

It all comes down to what is the rifle going to be used for?

So I bid you the same sentiment to you, your horse, your dog and all your barnyard animals and pets... But if you have a daughter I'd buy her dinner first. (and if she's any good I'll keep her

I agree with the answers to the original poster in that he should load whatever HIS particular rifle likes.

And the only way to determine what it likes is to try them.
But what it's likely to prefer would vary depending on what specifically he has and that should be tempered by what he wants to shoot with the rifle.

He doesn't need 160's to kill whitetails antelope or paper.

But if he actually did want to kill a moose I'd loan him a 30-06 before I made a specific recommendation on a load for a 6.5x55.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
Bartsche,

I you can't discuss it on the merits with an arguement consistant with your previous statements then you
should refrain from opening your mouth (or keyboard) and proving my point (and suspicions) for me.

I've used 160 grain 6.5 bullets and killed large mule deer with a 6.5 Carcano, a couple 6.5 Swedes. and what at that time I thought to be the first long throated 6.5 X .284. Why did I use the 160 gr. bullet? That's what I had at the time for one and because I wanted to.

There is no real arguement, It's all Math. The Swede starts off with 10% more usable volume than the .260.When it (6.5x55) and the .260 are loaded with the heavier bullets the difference of useful starting capacity can be greater than 15%. In two modern rifles ( a .260 and a 6.5X55)each can safely loaded to the same pressures.Now that is basic.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist, or self appointed Pontiff to draw an intelligent conclusion from that, to understand which cartridge gives greater performance.

Personally it would be nice if your windy key board would learn to be a little more polite and curteous. It seems to have the art of erronious critique spin doctoing down pat. roger

I reload 160 gr in my Swede because it close in weight to the original 156 gr bullet design. Both my Swedes shoot it better than the 140gr

I don't know any of the ballistics, math, formulas or trajectories either.

The Swedish & Norwegian military officers must have known something when they designed this caliber.

Load up a bunch next weekend, head to the range & see what your rifle prefers. That is what makes reloading all the more enjoyable !

quote:

Some have said, that you should not go above 120g in reloading?

Any particular reason for this given? Setting aside the .260 v. 6.5x55 issue, the heavier bullets is what sets these cartridges apart from the quarter bores (.25-06, .257 Roberts, et cet.). You won't find anything above 120 grains there.

quote:

What do most regard as the max bullet grain weight for the Swede

Let the gun tell you. Whatever yours shoots best would be my answer.

quote:

given that 300WSMs are availalbe in Accubonds at 180g+, a seemingly big difference in stopping power.

These are entirely different rifles, and I am hardpressed to compare them. The 6.5x55 isn't even a short action cartridge.

LWD

quote:

There is no real arguement, It's all Math. The Swede starts off with 10% more usable volume than the .260.When it (6.5x55) and the .260 are loaded with the heavier bullets the difference of useful starting capacity can be greater than 15%. In two modern rifles ( a .260 and a 6.5X55)each can safely loaded to the same pressures.Now that is basic.

I hate to differ but in my 6.5 Swede and 260 Rem I find no where near that amount of difference.

I just measured for water wgt each in NEW brass filled to the mouth, with a fired primer in the pocket to prevent leakage.
I found the empty brass to weight 183.7gr for the 6.5x55 and 168.6gr for the 260. Filled with water they went 235.9gr for the 6.5x55 and 217.8gr for the 260. This figures out, if my math is OK today, at 56.8gr water for the Swede vs 55.0gr for the 260.
I ran the same test previously a couple years ago with the two useing fired unsized brass but don`t have the brand or X`s fired listed, but the result was similar, 58.5gr for the Swede and 56.1 for the 260. This is ~2.0gr difference in case capacity, far from 10% let alone 15%.
If the rule of thumb for velocity/powder capacity is close - velocity increases at 25% the rate of case capacity at equal pressure - you gain very little with one over the other. A 10% gain in volume gives a 2.5% gain in velocity
if this is true. The 2gr change I found between them = ~ 4% more powder for the 6.5, I`ll let someone else do the math.
If one seats a bullet as I do (unlikely) a 140 gr Hornady SP both seated within 0.020" of the lead in my rifles are a COL of 3.055" for the Swede and 2.79" in the 260 Rem. Subtract case lenght and we find 0.89" of bullet EXPOSED in the Swede vs 0.725" for the 260. I doubt 0.065" of bullet inside the case is going to change the capacity much.
This is true from my experiance with bullets to 140 gr. I haven`t tried 160s though and doubt I ever will, just don`t need them with todays X bullets or Partitions. I doubt I`d see much change in the final numbers though if I did.

Since HoldenV8 has a 6.5x55 I don't know why the 260 was brought up.

HoldenV8, generally speaking "Stopping power" is a myth
that is perpetuated by emotional thinking.
Destroying an animals Internal organs and especially the Central Nervous system is what "stops" an animal.
And the animal will be "Stopped" if you hit it in the right spot
and it doesn't much matter if that spot is reached with a 22Short or a 470N.E. Dead is dead.

and A Miss with a 470N.E is still only a loud noise.

Though it's sometimes EASIER to reach that vital spotwith a bigger rifle, it usually easier to place your shot more precisely with a rifle that recoils less. You oay your money and make your choice.

And sometimes you miss the CNS AND the vital organs and depend on collecting the animal by exanguination (Loss of blood) in which case internal dammage and the size of the hole (length and width) are important.

as the saying goes a miss with a 44 is inferior to a perfect hit with a 22.

But a bigger projectile that doesn't "quite miss" has a better chance of producing secondary projectiles.

a 140gr 6.5projectile has a sectional density of .287, which is about the same as a 30cal projectile weighing ~195grains

So presuming similar velocity, same shot placement the target animal will be just as dead with either.

But the reality is that with the 6.5x55's "soft" recoil characteristics your shot placement will likely be closer to your intent with the 6.5 than with a 30cal mag

and we that sometimes slower projectiles penetate better,(even non expanding projectiles) nobody can adequately explain why this is so, but it's something to be considered....

The sectional density of a 6.5mm 160gr is .328, about the same as a 220gr 30cal projectile.

From your name and location you are in australia
and I imagine you could actually use that penetration on a water buffalo, what is it you call them there?
There's another name on the tip of my tongue and I just can't get it onto my keyboard fingers...

Shoot one for me will ya!

I'd come and shoot one myself, but I couldn't afford the airfare.

AllanD

quote:

HoldenV8, generally speaking "Stopping power" is a myth
that is perpetuated by emotional thinking.

Allan, I have no dog in this fight, but your previous statement is only partially correct at best. Do a google search on Florida FBI shootouts, and read about how they shot several perps to doll rags with standard handguns and got killed as a thank you. Then research the development of the 10MM and the resultant .40 S&W, and you will know why the Colt Delta Elite had such a short lifespan... (It will also explain the beauty of the .357 125-grain JHP, and the resultant development of the 357 SIG.)

And I know, we are talking rifles and animals here, not humans and handguns. But the principle is the same.

Simply defined, stopping power is energy expended into a living body. CNS will "stop" if the spine or brain is impacted, but if a bullet exits, there is wasted energy. I know you are fully aware of this, because you hunt... Knock something off its feet and it typically won't get up IF the vitals are impacted.

I took a whitetail with a .410 muzzleloader and a 385-grain pure lead conical the last weekend of gun season up here in Wisconsin. DRT, never even kicked, and the buck was shot through the lungs... Do that with a 140-grain partition out of a 6.5X55 and you will probably be trailing an animal.

The Miami shootout?
you are mistaken, the bad guys had the 223's in that fight.
SO BOTH sides "shot each other to tatters" without stopping the fight.

both bank robbery and homicide suspects were killed but so were two FBI agents and five other FBI agents were wounded.

There is no reason to believe the criminal's marksmanshipm was any beter than that exibited by the agents involved.

But on each point:
1)It was the BAD GUYS that had the 223's
(it seems you edited your post while I was replying)
2)Yes, The 9mm load FAILED to stop the suspects from continuing the fight
3) the 223Rem will 55gr ball has NEVER been a "man stopper", so any belief to the contrary was proof of dilusional thinking.
Ditto for most 9mm rounds
Bullets that "pencil through" don't have stopping power, and that can accurately describe the weapons on BOTH sides in the 1986 miami shootout.



the 125gr FBI load IS an excellent man stopper but had been replaced by the 9mm If the agents still had their 357's???

One agent (agent Mireles) DID.

IF you were shooting at an enraged bovine and similar results were achieved you'd have a real ugly set of hoofprints to show for your efforts.

It is fairly obvious that small caliber FMJ projectiles don't do much wounding (seperate discussion)

The Suspects continued to keep the FBI "pinned down" with rifle fire DESPITE being REPEATEDLY critically hit with what proved to be fatal injuries from the agent's 9mm pistols.

The 10mm came from the Miami Shootout
In an effort to replace the 9mm pistol with something more closely resembling the stopping power of the 357Mag revolvers formerly used by the FBI

But they quickly discovered that most of their agents couldn't control the chosen pistol (S&W 1076) with the chosen round so the round was "Detuned", then some bright engineer at S&W thought Gee we don't need that power so we can shorten the cartridge and make it fit in a 9mm frame pistol and thus the 40S&W was born.

I am a fan of the 10mm cartridge in it's original form.

The Miami shootout also proved the inadequacy of FBI marksmanship training as much as it proved anything else, "center mass" doesn't always work.

I also think that the original Remington 125gr JHC "FBI load"
(still sold by remington) is one of the best defence rounds ever produced... if you are SURE you can get the job done with six rounds.... and someone doesn't distract you while you are aiming.

The fact is that a wild animal or a human can get "pumped up" and continue fighting REGARDLESS of the severity of their wounds UNLESS the CNS is dammaged.

Your example doesn't prove what you thought it proves.

The fight was actually ended with a 12ga shotgun, not with the 223 rifles and with agent Mireles 357magnum revolver used at point blank range after he exhausted his 12ga rounds

So what does this prove in relation to a pissed off water buffalo? that if you REALLY want stopping power you really need an 8bore shotgun firing slugs.

Anything else is more likely an ILLUSION of stopping power rather than the actual thing.

But if a particular "stopping cartridge" makes you feel better use it...

I'm sure we can find examples of african hunters that made fatal hits to ele or buff with any african cartridge ever used on the continent and got themselves trampled anyway.

Just as I'm sure I can come up with examples of people killing those animals DRT with cartridges I would only try from INSIDE a main battle tank.

Cripes, Ted Nugent took on a Cape Buffalo with a 10mm pistol. I like the 10mm, but that is to me a "stunt".


But in point of fact I have shot a whitetail through the lungs with a 140gr partition,
(Caveat, it was a 7mm diameter partition
factory federal premum load from a borrowed 7mm-08) yeah, it moved alright, straight down! with the food it was eating still in it's teeth.

My brother shot one through the spine with a 12ga sabot slug from about 15feet (mostly above), this literally blew chunks of two vertibrae into the chest cavity, the deer still went 30feet on it's front legs alone dragging it's "disconnected" back end before it bled out.
(We actually found bone fragments from the spine in the exit wound blood splatter)

a few years before identical shot on another deer from the same stand in the SAME tree, with the same Shotgun and the same ammunition and the deer dropped on the spot,

I've seen a deer with a heart that proved to be "hamburger"
run completely across a field then simply fail to jump over a fence on the other side (running straight into the fence
like something from a Coyote-Roadrunner cartoon)
The other deer jumped over

while another deer that on dressing should have been able to run didn't, but simply stood still, appeared to "shiver" then collapased straight down.
in that case the bullet managed to pass an and out through the pericardium without hitting either the heart or any major blood vessel.
I honestly believe that the bullet impact killed the deer by knocking the heart out of it's normal rythym... (Fibrulation kills as well as destruction) because the "dammage" to the heart itself was no more than a dime sized bruise
And the deer simply didn't have sufficient time to bleed out from the dammage to it's lung.


this is why anecdotal evidence is nearly useless.
what does it all prove? Not a damned thing

there is simply no predicting what an animal is going to do
which might be why so many of the more experienced deer killers suggest you aim for the offside shoulder and break the deer's "suspension" and hamper it's mobility.

I am pleased when they drop straight down, but I am willing to admit that I actually have very little to do with what the deer does between when the bullet strikes and when I take my knife from it's sheath to dress it.

If I can admit that, can you?

what's the next one I shoot gonna do?
I have no more idea now than I did before I shot my first one way back when...

we try our best to take one cleanly, but in the greater scheme of things I can only say: "Man plans, God Laughs"

AD

quote:

Originally posted by Ol` Joe:

quote:

There is no real arguement, It's all Math. The Swede starts off with 10% more usable volume than the .260.When it (6.5x55) and the .260 are loaded with the heavier bullets the difference of useful starting capacity can be greater than 15%. In two modern rifles ( a .260 and a 6.5X55)each can safely loaded to the same pressures.Now that is basic.

I hate to differ but in my 6.5 Swede and 260 Rem I find no where near that amount of difference.

I just measured for water wgt each in NEW brass filled to the mouth, with a fired primer in the pocket to prevent leakage.
I found the empty brass to weight 183.7gr for the 6.5x55 and 168.6gr for the 260. Filled with water they went 235.9gr for the 6.5x55 and 217.8gr for the 260. This figures out, if my math is OK today, at 56.8gr water for the Swede vs 55.0gr for the 260.

Having highly regarded your postings in the past and having used unverified published data previously on the usefull capacity , I desided to corrct my errors and take the measurements on my own! Today gr= grains.

.260 RP cases, weight= 165.5 gr. with water to shoulder neck junction weight = 214.7gr., H2O = 49.2gr.

6.5x55 CBC cases, weight= 179.5gr. with water = 233.3gr., H2O=53.4gr.

6.5x55 FNM cases, weight= 187.5 gr. with water =240.5gr., H2O= 53.8gr.

6.5x55 RP cases, weight= 176.9gr. with water =230.7gr. H2O= 53.8gr.

6.5x55 PRVI(Bosnian),cases, weight=181.9gr. with water = 234.7gr.H2O= 52.5 gr.

Conclusion: My original posting of 10% difference in usefull capacity should have been 8.77%.

The 140gr. bullet has a measured 5.3 mm intrusion into the usefull capacity of the .260 and non on the 6.5x55. That creates another 2.88gr. of water difference, or a 14 % difference in usefull capacity.

The 156 gr. bullet has a measured 8.4mm intrusion into the usefull capacity of the .260and little if any on the vast majority of 6.5x55s. that equates to 16 to 18.4% difference in usefull capacity.

It is possible that I'm making a mistake but I don't know where.

IMHO for all the verbage that has been spent on the intent of this thread, how in the world can we say the PLUS 140 grain bullets should not be used in any 6.5 that has a long enough throat and magazine?

Just about this time , having read the thread, my little Italian Mama would look at me and say. "For what?" roger

Bartsche, I am humbled by the thought you would reguard me as you`ve stated. I`m definatly not a pro at this and have made more then my share of mistakes. Hopefully I am in some minor way worthy of your impression of me.
I see we are measuring to different points in the case. You are stopping at the shoulder / neck and I`m going all the way to the mouth. It has me wondering if it makes that much difference.
I rechecked my measurments and did it a little different this time. I filled each case with H2O then seated a 140 gr partition to the canalure then removed it and reweighted the case and remaining water. The brass is still in both cartridges fired Remington brand with spent primer in.
The bullet was seated equally to the canalure, ~ 0.44†/ 11.18mm in each case, no attempt was made to juggle COL to max. Some variation in COL will exist in real life and the 260 surely will see the bullet seated 0.10" deeper. I did it this way just to keep the numbers as even as I could. I don`t know what the extra tenth inch volume will add to the wgt but I`m sure it will give the 6,5x55 another 2 or 3 grs. that would bring my 2 gr finding real close to your 4.6 gr in real life.

Rem 260 empty = 168.1 gr
260 full to mouth = 224.4 gr
260 with 140 gr Partition seated to canalure removed, and remaining case/water wgt = 218.6gr
224.4 gr - 218.6 gr = 50.5 gr water

Rem 6.5x55 empty = 176.8 gr
6.5x55 full to mouth = 235.5 gr
6.5x55 with 140 gr Partition seated to canalure and removed, remaining case/water wgt = 229.2
229.2 gr – 176.8 gr = 52.4 gr water

quote:

IMHO for all the verbage that has been spent on the intent of this thread, how in the world can we say the PLUS 140 grain bullets should not be used in any 6.5 that has a long enough throat and magazine?

I can`t say they "shouldn`t" be used, I just don`t feel any need for them. Don`t use over 154 gr in my 7-08 either although I`m sure 160 + gr might give a minor edge in some instance... But that`s another thread

quote:

Originally posted by HoldenV8:
I am a keen fan of this calibre.

Some have said, that you should not go above 120g in reloading?

Just skipping to the the brand many regard as the top of the tree, Nosler- list Accubonds at a max of 130g and Partitions at ,140g.

What do most regard as the max bullet grain weight for the Swede, given that 300WSMs are availalbe in Accubonds at 180g+, a seemingly big difference in stopping power.

The short anwnser is 140.g, they have more punch and group better (in my rifle) .I would go with A 140.g NP with 38.g of IMR 4064. Old school load.

quote:

But the likelihood that his 6.5 will shoot 100gr bullets
or the even lighter varmint bullets well is kinda small.

Reading this, I suppose I'm just a lucky bastard. My also very long throated 6.5x57 hunting rifle, shoots the 85 grains Sierra HP bullets in sub MOA 5 shot goups any day (if I'm doing my part). As far as I know, the throat of the 6.5x57 (and equally the 6.5x68) is even longer as that of the Swede but a 93 grains spitzer is still one of the "standard" RWS factory loads.

Hi folks. What guns and twist rates are you talking about i.e. new commercial actions or military M96 or M38? I just recently got a Husky M38 and was thinking of getting 140 or 160 gr bullets. Looks like twist rates are anywhere from 1 in 7.87 to 1 in 9, with mine 1 in 8. Already have brass and dies. Your ideas?
Thanks,
Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike1:
Hi folks. What guns and twist rates are you talking about i.e. new commercial actions or military M96 or M38? I just recently got a Husky M38 and was thinking of getting 140 or 160 gr bullets. Looks like twist rates are anywhere from 1 in 7.87 to 1 in 9, with mine 1 in 8. Already have brass and dies. Your ideas?
Thanks,Mike

What ever works ,Mike. If it accurately stabelizes the 160 and 140 ,take your pick. The 160 puts you into a slightly larger game category. roger