I bought a Taurus Total Titanium (TTT) 5 shot revolver in 45 Colt for my CCW primarily as protection for black bears. I have a night job around the resorts in the Pocono mountains area where tourists tend to feed these critters so they have less fear of humans than usual. And some weigh in the 700 to 800 pound catagory. Well fed to say the least.

I have 225 grain cast lead bullets made from wheelweights with a little tin added for strength. They are from a Lee round-nose tumble lube mold I normally use in my 45ACP. I'd like to utilize these bullets as this gun will be carried much, but fired little. But if and when it is needed I'd like it to penetrate to the vitals if not through and through. I figure a hardcast lead bullet like this would do the trick.

As we all know, most gun manufacturers these days frown on the use of handloads. Well screw 'em! I intend on making up as powerful a handload as possible for this revolver. Taurus states that any factory load that does not exceed 900fps with a 250 grain bullet is safe in this titanium handgun but does not differentiate lead or jacketed.
There are more recipes for the 45 Colt than you can shake a stick at, running from wimpy cowboy action loads all the way up to 45 magnum hunting loads. Most are for either 250 or 255 grain bullets and a barrel length of 5 to 7 inches.

The best info so far has come from our own Steve Ricciardelli's excellent site. But even he doesn't say if the recipes are for jacketed or cast bullets. Anyway I thought I'd work up some trial loads. I used AA #5,
VV N-340, IMR SR-4756, and WW 231. The Winchester powder was the cleanest burning by far. Other powders I have on hand but yet to try are: AA #9, AA 5744, Bluedot, Herco, HS-7, VV N-320, PowerPistol and Universal Clays.

Steve's list for WW 231 and a 225\230 grain bullet goes from 7.2 to 10.5 grains. No pressure or speed is indicated. As I worked up from the starting load I fired each 5 shot group over the Oehler 35 chrono using first my 45 Colt Taurus Raging Bull (RB) with 6" barrel then the Titanium 5 shooter with 2" barrel. I finally stopped at 10 grains even. Average speed for the RB was 1,085fps. The average for the TTT was 870.
No pressure signs or bullet jump. The empties (new Starline nickel) actually fell from the chambers of their own accord, same as with the starting load. I'd be happy to stop right here.

I know it isn't the perfect medium, but my liquid alox hardcast bullets penetrated 5" of dry phonebook at 15 feet. The bullets did not mushroom or deform. A slight smearing on one side of the nose is all.

So, my questions are:

1. Is there a relationship between cast versus jacketed bullet loads in relation to powder charge?

2. If 250grain at 900fps is safe, what is a safe max speed for 225 grains?

3. Is 10 grains of WW231 over-pressure\over-power for this snubby?

4. If so, what IS a safe max?

btt

I have not shot the TTT by taurus and can only give you my experience with S$W Model 25-5, 4" barrel. My 25-5 is an older model with a firing pin on the hammer making it a five shot. The guns were not designed for the pressures ruger and others are capable of handling. I load it a little hot at around 980 fps with Beartooth Bullets 260 gr.Keith style wadcutter. Beartooth bullets are excellent and I recommmend them highly. It penetrates very well and will end to end just about any deer or hog I shoot. I have not recoverd a bullet yet. I think you have a very good load as stated and is adequate for bears, but I have not shot any bears.

Cast bullets tend to shoot faster than jacketed bullets with less powder. That has been my experience.

Good luck with your situation.

Thanks slim_zippy,

Anyone else feel like tackling my questions in the new year?

I am not an expert with the 45 Colt even though it is my favorite cartridge. When I am carrying mine - built on a Ruger - in bear country I lean to the Buffalo Bore 300 grain loads. But I am not sure if that Taurus model can take the beating. It would not be pleasant to shoot in a light gun, but it is a show stopper.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
Thanks slim_zippy,

Anyone else feel like tackling my questions in the new year?

Ahh.......

"Number Five:

The data contained here is for copper-jacketed with lead-core bullets. It can be used with lead bullets and solid bullets (but YOU must take into consideration the composition and construction of the bullet). It is not designed to be used with coated bullets of any type. If you are intent on using coated bullets, buy yourself the reloading manual published by the bullet manufacturer!"

As you have found out, and the reason I don't list pressures and velocities, is that there are too many variables involved with each firearm.

My "max" loads are one step below the load that showed me any obvious sign of high pressure. You may find that you can load your firearm a little hotter than I could load mine, or in most cases, you will have to drop back a bit for your "max" load.

You might want to visit another of my pages, http://stevespages.com/page8f45colt.html

Down at the bottom of the page you will find tables (after you get done looking at all the pretty pictures) of what certain loads do in certain firearms and different barrel lengths.

As for specifics on your Taurus...in all honesty, only you can decide if the load you are using is harmful.

Steve,
All I see is data for large frame, steel frame revolver using jacketed bullets. Generally, your site is a wealth of information. But nothing applies in this situation: titanium snubby shooting cast lead bullets. But thanks for the cut and paste.

For what it's worth, nobody on cast boolits, or the taurus talk, or sig forum was any help either. Neither were the 9 gun rag articles from 3-4 years ago when all the writers were touting alloy revolvers as the best thing since sliced bread.

Quite the conundrum. Or perhaps I'm the only one who wishes to use other than factory ammo in my gun. Witch would be a wise choice if I were intending to protect from 2 legged beasts. But I am not. And this deep into winter all the black bears are hibernating anyway, so the point is moot.

The only comment I have regarding your load is that I am a little hesitant to use a round-nose bullet for head shots on bears because of the tendency of bullets to glance from the bear's sloping forehead and go over its back! I'd change to a semi=wadcutter or other flatnose projectile, as such a slug has a greater capability to "bite into" the surface it strikes at an oblique angle. However, a 225 grain hard lead bullet at 870 FPS will go through a bear's head for sure if it hits square. I have proven this to my satisfaction with both GI ball ammo in a .45 ACP and 173-grain Keith bullets in a .357 Magnum, using rear black bears' heads.

A 900fps vel. ceiling is a bit misleading. If you get there w/ W231, your pressures will be higher than 900fps w/ say Unique. I like bulkier, med. burners in big cases for your type of load. Of the powders you listed, I would look @ Univ.Clays, AA#5 & Herco. I would also ditch the 225gr cast RN. A 240gr cast SWC or LFP would be a better penetrator, more momentum & straight line penetration. The RN will veer or deflect if striking any bone.
Typically the same powder charge for a jacketed bullet will give you a bit more vel. when using a lead bullet. I think it's a mix of coef. of friction & a more complete gas seal.

Titanium has more stretch than steel but I have never seen an authorative article on any limits imposed in a hand gun. I had a TTT in 45 ACP for a while and shot every load I could find through it without incident including some +P ammo.

I agree with fred that a velocity/bulet weight ceiling is meaningless when pressure is the actual issue. Taurus is certainly concerned with servicing their lifetime warranty so I see that logic. Logic also dictates they would never release a modern design handgun to the US market for which factory ammo is readily available that exceeds their maximum safe limit, regardless of their recommendation in this case. But my logic could be another's definition of folly, LOL.

I also agree that a flat nose bullet will do better service that the round nose. You can find a reasonable fascimile of your cast bullet for "carrying loads" and plink or practice with your home-cast round noses.

Thanks for the comments.
1 I was just trying to economize by reusing the 230gr mold...I know it is not optimum.
2 In my dreams of how things might occur, I never visualized aiming for the bear's head...always for the heart/lung area.
3 The '06 Hodgdon annual manual arrived today and it lists loads for 230 gr cast LRNFP, using universal, hp-38, titegroup and clays. All max loads are within 800CUP of one another but close to the 14K CUP max for the old 45 Colt.
4 I will give a try to some of the medium burners.
5 Taurus says that all their TTT revolvers are rated for +P loads. But I always assumed they meant 38Special or maybe 44 special. I have never seen any factory labeled 45Colt +P loads other than Corbon, and my gut feeling is that they would blow up my new gun and most likely my hand with it!

I doubt your Taurus would "blow up" from using loads slightly above the cup for the original .45colt loadings. It would probably wear faster @ key areas. Just stay close to the data for the original colt.
The other issue w/ the 230grRNL on live game is the wound channel will be very narrow. The RN just pushes tissue aside. Look for a LFP or SWC, I wouldn't even mind a full 225gr WC. Redding makes a mold.
http://www.redding-reloading.com/PDF%20files/bulletchart.pdf

I would scrap the 225gr round nose idea. I recommend a 250 Keith over 6 grains of red dot. Mild enough for your gun, but potent and accurate. I don't like to quote load data on line, but this load is almost famous in the "moderate but effective" catagory. The new version of red dot burns much cleaner than old red dot.

Duly noted, ColoradoMatt and others.

But I already have 12 pistol powders and 1 bullet mold. I'm not about to gear up with Red Dot and another mold just to load up a 5 shot cylinder of black bear protection. I don't even know anybody who I could borrow these items from.
Thanks again, but I'm going to have to stick with what I've got on hand.

If I eventually get eaten by a black bear, perhaps my next of kin will post here:

"He died cause he was too damn cheap to protect himself the right way." So be it.