I recently read an article on using a filler for reduced loads. The article indicated the use of Dacron Wool (which has been used in the past for stuffing for pillows, toys, etc.) as a filler to hold the powder to the rear of the case. I have looked at various stores for this material and have not found it. Is there another material that would work for this use and not change the burning characteristics (and pressure) of the powder? I know that some polyfiber stuffing is highly flamable.

Thanks in advance.

SD Shooter

Try to find some Puff-lon. It is made as a cartridge filler but rarely found in any stores I have been to. Try a web search.

As for the regular pillow filler Dacron, you can probably find it on the shelves of stores with sewing supplies.

Try http://www.pufflon.com

Go to any Walmart and in the fabric department ask for polyester filling for pillows. It's the dacron you're looking for. You can get it either as pillow stuffing or in the form of batting used to make quilts and baby blankets. My preference in for the batting in either 1/4" ot 1/2 inch thicknesses. It's easy to cut the size you want withough having to guess the weight. About the only time I use the 1/2" size is for the .375 H&H and 45-70. For the .308 and 30-06, I cut the 1/4" thick batting into 1/2" squares. That makes an over powder wad weighing just about a half a grain, give or take a bit. It's worked pretty well for me.
Paul B.

I read some bad things that can happen with certain fillers that may cause ribbons in the barrel. Certain synthetic fibers can adhere to the barrel, I have used plain old toilet paper with no ill effects, At first thought the TP would burn on ignition but it is actually appears as a "white" smoke at firing

When you say minimum powder loads, how low are you talking? I've found with the right pistol powders rifle rounds can be downloaded quite a bit and you still get consistant ignition. If you're talking "cat sneeze" loads, then I've found cotton to work as well as anything.

I have used the poly fibre fill that Wally World sells for batting without any ill effects but, the TP sounds even safer.

When using pistol powders it seems there is no need for fillers. After all, you have a lot of empty space, too, when loading .38 Sp. wadcutters or for the .45 LC.

For a reduced loads I found Accurate Arms 5744 to be all I need and fillers are not required with this powder. I was successful in developing a reduced load approximating 30/30 Win velocity with 170 gr. 30/30 bullets in a .300 H&H and a .300 Winni. Loads were extremely accurate and velocity spreads were very small. Couldn't be happier with these results.

Here is the URL for Accurate Arms;
http://www.accuratepowder.com/

Here is a quote from the website regarding AA5744...

Back by popular demand! Accurate has re introduced 5744. 5744 Is a short cut, extruded, double base rifle propellant. Its burn rate is between our No. 9 and 1680. 5744 Is not intended to set new velocity records. What it will do, however, is allow you to shoot reduced loads, without fillers, in just about any cartridge, especially the older, low pressure, rifle cartridges. IHMSA shooters take note, it is also useful in large capacity handgun cartridges.

Might be worth a looksee..

I certainly appreciate the responses regarding the filler for minimum loads. I have been reloading for over thirty years but just recently read the article about the filler.

Paul H - In response to your question. I am loading several rifle calibers, including 300 Win Mag, 358 Norma Mag, 375 H&H & 458 Win Mag.

I went to Wal-Mart and found two types of fiberfill, one that is non-flamable and one that is highly flamable. I wasn't sure which one would be appropriate. My main concern is to keep all of the powder at the rear of the case for consistant ignition. But I also did not want to leave any detrimental residue in the barrel.

So Paul B, which polyester filling do you use, the flamable or non-flamable?

Again, many thanks to all of you.

SD Shooter

Hey SD Shooter, Just curious if the article you read warned about "Ringing" a chamber when using a Filler?

Hotcor,

The article did not warn of ringing the chamber. I would be interested to know more about this issue if you could please advise or direct me to more information.

Thanks,

SD Shooter

I still use Cream of wheat. It's worked for me for 30+ years and I see no reason to change. It leaves no plastic residue, and smells good to, only drawback is if your hungry it makes the juice's flow.
Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
When you say minimum powder loads, how low are you talking? I've found with the right pistol powders rifle rounds can be downloaded quite a bit and you still get consistant ignition. If you're talking "cat sneeze" loads, then I've found cotton to work as well as anything.

I was using cotton many years ago and started a small grass fire. roger

In my 350 rigby, I use 14 gr of Unique over a 200 gr cast, and a 10 round string had an extreme spread of 20 fps and a mean velocity of 1410 fps, and that is with no filler in a case the size of a 375 H&H. Group was a bit over 1" at 50 yds.

If you're looking for a cat sneaze load, ie trying to get very quiet loads with just enough powder to get the bullet out of the barrel, then a filler is called for.

But for loads nominally above 1000 fps with cast bullets, no filler is needed for consistant ignition if you use the proper pistol powder. I like Unique, 2400 and Blue dot, depending on the application.

quote:

Originally posted by SD Shooter:
I certainly appreciate the responses regarding the filler for minimum loads. I have been reloading for over thirty years but just recently read the article about the filler.

Paul H - In response to your question. I am loading several rifle calibers, including 300 Win Mag, 358 Norma Mag, 375 H&H & 458 Win Mag.

I went to Wal-Mart and found two types of fiberfill, one that is non-flamable and one that is highly flamable. I wasn't sure which one would be appropriate. My main concern is to keep all of the powder at the rear of the case for consistant ignition. But I also did not want to leave any detrimental residue in the barrel.

So Paul B, which polyester filling do you use, the flamable or non-flamable?

Again, many thanks to all of you.

SD Shooter

I'll be perfectly honest with you, I don't know. I didn't even know there was a difference.
I've used toilet paper for the really super light gallery loads AKA "Cat Sneeze", kapok at one time, and now the dacron batting.
I would not use a cereal filler like corn meal or Cream of Wheat in any bottlenecked case and have quit using Cream of Wheat in straight walled cases like the 45-70. I once had a load in the 45-70 that had a bad primer that didn't fire. When I broke the load down, the Cream of Wheat was packed so solidly that it took a screwdriver to scrape it out. I do believe that that same situation in a bottleneced case could cause a serious rise in pressure. The same load without the Cream of Wheat was 100 FPS slower.
Seating a dacrom filler lightly on the powder charge should not create any problems. Packing it down hard might, but I haven't seen it so far. Using a cardboard over powder shotgun wad against a powder charge in a straight walled case is a recipe for disaster. I once used 410 shotgun over powder wads to hold a light charge of Unique in place in one of my 45-70s. You can imaging my shock and dismay when I found out that I had ringed the barrel in two places. The really weird thing about this was the rifle was more accurate after the barrel ringing. I picked up an average of .25" tighter groups with that rifle. I'm still at a loss trying to figure that one out.

FWIW, I just went out to my shed to check on the status of my supply of dacron batting. It does not say anything about whether it is flamable or not. It does say that it is "crib size" so I will have to assume that it is non-flamable.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by SD Shooter:
...The article did not warn of ringing the chamber...

Hey SD Shooter, Back when I began shooting, there was a whole lot of non-jacketed bullets and paper jacketed bullets being used. And there was lots of information in the NRA magazine back then about people shooting Reduced Loads with "fillers" of various types. The big discussions seemed to center around "fillers" Ringing Chambers.

As I read it, I decided to just avoid the "fillers" and go with the HIGH Bulk Dupont Powder of that time. Today I believe it is IMR's SR-4795 and I think Accurate has one called XMP-5744, but it has been too long ago to count on my memory for those numbers. Some of these other guys should know more about this than I do.

There was rampant speculation back then about what created the Pressure Spike which in turn created the "Ring" in the chmaber. Agian, I will gladly defer to these other guys to correct anything I get wrong here. But, I believe the concensus was:

1. The "filler" occasionally acted as a Plug which caused Presure to build too rapidly without the Bullet moving forward. And the resulting Pressure Spike created the Ring.
1a. The Plug was sometimes due to the actual material being used as a "filler", was just the wrong stuff to use.
1b. The Plug was sometimes due to the Loaded Cartridges "setting too long before firing" and the "filler" would harden into a mass(cornmeal, etc.)and did not want to flow through bottleneck Cartridges smoothly.
2. The filler would move forward during transit to the field or range and thus not allow a clean ignition because the Powder was spread out. This resulted in a near squib Load but as the Pressure did build, the Powder would "Flash Over" and create the Pressure Spike.
3. The Powder and "filler" would get slightly mixed and create a condition similar to #2.

Probably some more that I don't remember. And I could still have the above info goofed up.

For some reason I seem to think most folks tended to shoot "fillers" in Straight Wall cases back then. And if they shot bottleneck cartridges they just went to the HIGH Bulk powders like I mentioned earlier, to avoid the potential for Ringing.

Some of you guys who are up on this should jump in and clear up whatever I got wrong. Just been too long ago for me.
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Depending on the specific Cartridge you are wanting to shoot with Reduced Loads, you might not need a "filler" at all. Is there one Cartridge in particular you want to use Reduced Loads in?
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Edit in: Just noticed RDub is using the Accurate Powder I was refering to. Maybe my subconscious retained the number from his post as I read it, but I was sure surprised to see it was the same Powder Number.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeN:
I still use Cream of wheat. It's worked for me for 30+ years and I see no reason to change. ...

Hey Mike, Are you using it in bottleneck cases?

Have you ever had any just "set around" for a few months and then fire them?

quote:

Originally posted by MikeN:
I still use Cream of wheat. It's worked for me for 30+ years and I see no reason to change. It leaves no plastic residue, and smells good to, only drawback is if your hungry it makes the juice's flow.
Mike

MikeN - When using Cream of Wheat, do you mix it with a weighed charge of powder, or just pour it in on top? I'm wondering because it seems it would affect burn characteristics if the powder is "diluted" this way.

The NRA book "Handloading" warns not to use Dacron as a filler.

I have used Kapox as a filler in the past for reduced loads with good luck except for the 220 Swift where it left a residue on the neck. I attribute that to the heavy brass not expanding enough.

Today I still favor reduced loads but more of them are made with just IMR's 4759 and no filler. I much prefer 4759 to Accurates powder as it has far more bulk to fill the case over half way in most loads and therefore to eliminate the chances of a double charge.

I was loading a 30-06 would charge the powder, then fill the case with CW to the neck place a round ball (buck shot) over the CW place a dab of grease on the top and go shoot.
Mike

Hey MikeN, Thank you.
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As luck would have it, there is another thread currently active which is also discussing "Ringing". AC does an excellent job of describing it:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/941101683

Savage99 has got it right - try using IMR's SR4759 and avoid the controversial issue of case filler entirely. It is great stuff!

http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/375hhmag.php

http://www.imrpowder.com/data/rifle/458winmag.php

I haven't looked at the NRA Cast Bullet Handbook in quite a while, but if I remember correctly, the filler recommended was kapok. It was very light, very bulky, and burned up completely upon ignition of the powder.

It can be readily bought off ebay. There are usually several people offering pounds of the stuff, at ridiculously cheap prices.

Just go to ebay and do a search for kapok...