Members: How many times do you use a case before you anneal its neck? Is it possible to anneal too frequently? TIA

most of the time you get a response on it just depends.
how hot your loads are wheather you fl resize or just neck size and again the cartrage itself.
in my 25/06's I usually throw the cases away after about 2 to 3 firings because I shoot pretty hot loads and the primer pockets tend to stretch. On the other hand 22/250 and the 243 are anneiled about every 3trd. firing and they are mostly neck sized

mid speed target 243, 22-250, 6mm, 7mm
anneal every 4x and I never full length size. all these are same gun for each caliber -- bolt action

if hot loads I usially toss them after 2x and never anneal.

DAMN, loads so hot you toss the cases after a couple of firings???

Not me, no way! I have some brass that has been loaded over 35 firings, similar calibers, 25.06, .270, 6.5x284 and some bigger stuff too, 375 H&H, 330 Dakota.

The annealing interval does vary IME, but I just go by feel, if the brass is stiff enough that the resizing doesn't seem to 'take' than I anneal the cases. How you do it is a whole frickin book on it's own, but I recently ordered the Ken Light annealer, so I'll post on how that works after I have enough experience with it.

One other thing, I've never really done it solely for economy, but the case is the most expensive part of the cartidge in the reloading process, so if you have to pitch em after every 2nd reloading, that sure negatively impacts the economy if that is a motiviation.....Is it possible to anneal too frequently; sure--you want the brass to be at a certain 'hardness' range, not so hard that it cracks/splits, but not so soft that it doesn't hold tension well, or deforms to easily.

There is some VERY detailed stuff here and on 6mm benchrest.com on annealing--search a bit here on AR, it was batted around quite a bit about 6-8 weeks ago I think.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
DAMN, loads so hot you toss the cases after a couple of firings???

Not me, no way! ...

Hey Fish, I'm with you on that much Pressure. Seems like excellent way to get Cumulative Metal Fatigue.

I didn't realize a good many folks do as hivelosity and rje mentioned about loading that HOT until I got on the net. I no longer buy "Used Firearms", because I just don't want one that has been subjected to those Pressure levels on a continuous basis.
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Hey Pagris, Fish mentioned being able to "feel a difference". I agree it is possible to feel the difference as you pull the Expander Ball through the Case Neck, but there is a Learning Curve.

Meanwhile, if you are Loading at SAFE MAX or below, 4-5 shots on a Case before Annealing works pretty well - most of the time.

As hivelosity mentioned, "it depends". If the Chamber Neck and the Die Neck & Expander are a good match, you can go longer without Annealing because the Case Neck is not "worked" as much during a Resizing operation. Sometimes they match up well and you can go much longer.

You can do some Testing and see how well they do. I once got 33 reloads on three 7mmRemMag cases using a SAFE MAX Load of IMR-4831 and 150gr Bullets - without any Annealing! No telling how many shots I'd have gotten if I had of Annealed them. After the 33rd round of shooting, I noticed a Neck Split on 1 Case and Stopped the Test.

Best of luck to you all.

HC, good point on used rigs! I have always had an intuitive nature to by new rigs, have certainly bought a few used ones, but that sure makes you think when you hear about reloaders pushing the envelope--I'm to scared to have something blow up in my face--and if people paid attention to CMF, they would not push past max loads.

I've had a rifle blow up on me, and seen a few--it ain't pretty when one goes, and the injuries can be, well it's your head man!

I've found my average 'need' to anneal comes after 7 loadings.

good shooting!

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
...I've had a rifle blow up on me, and seen a few--it ain't pretty when one goes, and the injuries can be, well it's your head man!...

I can think of a few on the Board(not currently in this thread) where a Bolt through the noggin might help their Logic.

fish, I agree with you for the most part but there are some that need hotroddin,
this 25/06 is a 30" hart 1.250od barrel on a viper ss action, its my hot rod. shootin 117gr sierras at about 3400f/s using imr4831 some where over max. the only weak point in this set up is the brass and I intend to get all out of it I can. It will not be one you will find at the local dealer
Dave

HV, I hear you, I think that rig should give you some speed for sure, if the only pressure signs are the loose primer pockets, than maybe it's OK, but that is definitely pushing it.

ps-- I have a 25-06 with a 24" barrel that gives me 3400'ish with near max loads of V V 550, and 110's, so that's just food for thought...

Not to hijack the thread, but how do you like the Viper action??

Good shooting!

first custom action that I have owned. the bolt cycles as smoth as silk. lock time is very good is a bottom eject and sorry for the hijac
Dave

The only reason I'd buy a used rifle is for the action.

I have been doing a "test trial" by annealing after every firing on some 270, 270 AM, 30.06, 6.5x284, and 7mag.

I'm attempting to see if the hulls can actually be "over-annealed."

The guy that sells the Brass-o-Matic stated to me that he anneals after every firing. He shoots benchrest so gets a lot more trigger time than me.

I have 5 cases marked and so far they've been annealed after each firing, and I think I'm on 12 times each.

Probably overkill, but the process is so fast with my drill set up that I'm done in a few of minutes.

One interesting thing I've noticed is that the brass sure sizes easy!

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:

One interesting thing I've noticed is that the brass sure sizes easy!

Doc, that is interesting. I wonder if that is because most of the 'sizing' is going on in the neck shoulder area?

I still haven't gotten my Ken Light rig, I sent payment over a month ago, I've got to check on it. Damn working makes you loose focus on the fun stuff

Let me know how that Ken Light setup works. I remember you ordering it awhile back. I thought by now you would have used it a few times.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
The only reason I'd buy a used rifle is for the action. ...

Hey Doc, The Action(including the Bolt) is the part that takes the hammering that has the porential to create the Cumulative Metal Fatigue.

If the parts are all Magnifluxed and checked for Work Hardening, then I'd feel better about it myself. But by the time a person does that, they could buy a new M700 and be ahead.

You see folks on this Board talk about HOT Loads all the time and you just never know what a Used Rifle has been subjected to. Lots of folks get by with buying Used though - just not me.

Best of luck to you.

HC, for what it is worth, I've never purchased a used rifle.

In fact I have a couple of custom actions on the way for new projects.

If I ever purchased a used rifle for the action it would be from someone I know where I know the history of the firearm.

quote:

Members: How many times do you use a case before you anneal its neck?

I've never annealed....ever.....and I really don't think I've lost much because of it.

Be your own judge.

I anneal after every two reloads. Not possible to anneal to frequently. Trim cases before annealing so you get a smoother cut from the harder brass.

I'm with vapo, never anneal. The main reason is that I think the brass reaches a certain hardness and then stays there. When it reaches that point is when I can prep that brass more consistantly. The spring back is the same on the hardened cases and much less than a new or annealed neck. Even though I don't anneal I noticed this on new cases.

Also the runout is easier to control and eliminate. In working with the Bersin it doesn't take long to figure out that it take very little pressure to push the bullets around in new or once fired cases. Give me a 3 or 4 times fired case and I can push the runout away and it will stay straight. With soft necks you can push the neck with your fingers.

Why introduce another variable?