I was looking into getting a second loading manual. I have Lee, Richard. Modern Reloading, 2nd ed. I notice it does not have any loads for 7.62x25 and only a few for 7.62x54mmR. I would like to have more info on these two calibers, but also want one with great general information and front matter. Any suggestions?

I have always liked lyman manuals.

Accurate Powder has a good one. Even a few cast bullet loads.

My older 8th Edition Hornady, think there is a 9th edition, does list both cartridges. Glanced at the load pages for them. Looks like an extensive listing for suitable 17 different Hornady bullets for the 7.62x54R. But Hornady shows only one bullet for the pistol cartridge, a 90 gr one with nine different powders shown to use with it.

Glanced at my Nosler manual, also one edition behind....loads for the rifle cartridge, but not the pistol.

My 13th edition Speer manual is one(?) edition behind too. Doesn't show either cartridge.

Guess the Hornady manual might be the one to get. But like I wrote, just a guess.

Cowboy, I use 3 manuals to cross reference loads... Hornady, Lyman, and Sierra. Each has it's own merits, and each one has slightly different information, even when using the same components. As much as we could wish, reloading is not an exact science, as the variables between firearms just don't allow it.

No matter what, reloading manuals are great reading, so get as many as you can afford!!... and keep the old ones... sometimes the recipes change, but that doesn't make the old manuals obsolete, especially if you are developing the loads with care.

Lyman (1 back) has several x54R loads and loads for 3 bullets, including a cast bullet, in the Tokarev.

Sierra has loads for a single Tokarev bullet and tons of data for 7.62x54R, but all for .308 bullets.

Hornady has tons of 7.62x54R, including .308, .310, and .311 bullets and loads for single bullet in x25.

Lyman, Speer, Hornady, Sierra, Accurate and Alliant all have labs.
Lee does not have a lab.

I have manuals by Lee, Barnes, Berger, Hornady, Speer, Nosler and Lyman. The one I hardly ever use is the Lee manual and the ones I use the most are by Hornady and Nosler. Hodgdon also puts out a yearly reloading magazine that I use quite a bit.

Buy as many as you can afford. Knowledge is power, and safety top priority.

seein as how the lee is a re-print of everybody elses data.
I use it to first find a load then go confirm it in the manual it come out of, and to see what the actual components like bullet and primer were used.
if I were looking for a second I'd get the hornady [since I like their bullets] and the hodgdon annual [magazine] manual.

Lee doesn't reprint "everyone else's" data, they print the data that other manuals don't print, mostly data they get from various powder makers who certainly do have "labs".

Lee's manuals includes more data for more cartridges, powders and bullets than other manuals and they have some of the best illustrated and well written basic instructions avaliabe - and they provide it all at a great price, as usual.

Lyman's manual has been pared down from previous editions. A lot of the older cartridges have been dropped but it's probably still the best for additional info, cast bullets and some very good noob instructions.

It certainly appears they reprint everyones data.
Do you have a source that says they print the data other manuals don't print?
How could they get such data if the powder manufacturer publishes their own data - by using 3rd rate data?
Yeah Lee might make stuff for noobs but in the reloading business compared to almost all other data and tool manufacturers Lee is the NOOB.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
Lee doesn't reprint "everyone else's" data, they print the data that other manuals don't print, mostly data they get from various powder makers who certainly do have "labs".

Lee's manuals includes more data for more cartridges, powders and bullets than other manuals and they have some of the best illustrated and well written basic instructions avaliabe - and they provide it all at a great price, as usual.

Lyman's manual has been pared down from previous editions. A lot of the older cartridges have been dropped but it's probably still the best for additional info, cast bullets and some very good noob instructions.

I like to have the manual from the powder manufacturer that I am using and from the bullet manufacturer. I think I am up to thirteen manuals now.

Hodgdon and Accurate powder websites provide comprehensive data on the powders they market.

As far as published hard copy manuals, the Lyman has always been among the most dependable.

What I didn't like about the Lee Manual is that it seemed, in places, to be using the manual as a vehicle to sell Lee kit.

Now in both the Lyman and RCBS manuals whilst they may use pictures of their own stuff, naturally, to illustrate a process there isn't this blatant pushing of their gear.

FWIW one of the best manuals that tells you how to use reloading dies is the one that RCBS amd Lyman include inside the box of dies when you by them.

For powder loadings I now tend to visit the powder or bullet manufacturers' websites rather than rely on the manuals of reloading equipment makers. Or use the "one calibre" manuals that nowadays seem popular.

Hornady first, then buy one of each as soon as you can. Then read them all and compare them. Good learning experience. If you subscribe to loaddata on the place which I can't write here, you will get data from all sources.

Lee and Lyman go great together - beyond that, I would also suggest whatever manual is published by your favourite powder and bullet company.

Side note - always entertaining to see the Lee haters come out of teh woodwork!

I have several and I look at them all when I try a new combination.

I usually try to get an average of my 4 books and one from the Hogdon website

BTW IMO Sierra is on the hot side for all of my rifles

quote:

It certainly appears they reprint everyones data.
Do you have a source that says they print the data other manuals don't print?
How could they get such data if the powder manufacturer publishes their own data - by using 3rd rate data?

Amusing; I hardly need a "source" to tell me what I can see in loading manuals.

We can all get the same data Lee publishes and get it free if we know where and take the time to get the various powder maker's data sheets. But then it wouldn't all be in one place and nicely arranged for easy reference - I like that!

I hardly find it surprising or objectionable that any tool manufactor would produce an instruction book with their name on it and promote the use of their tools. The choice of what tools we buy isn't mandated by any book!

So far as "noob" stuff goes, it takes a true noob to believe in silly brand snobbery. I've been loading for everything that goes BANG since '65. I and every truly knowledgable hand loader I've ever met has a wide mix of tool brands on our bench, including red. Only insecure noobs with very little variety of experience will have a bench full of tools with a single label!

It matters little how long or how much someone has reloaded; what matters is how much has been learned. I'm much too old and have had great success with too wide range of tools to still have an emotional attachment to inanimate objects!

A book isn't the best avenue. Get some good soft ware or a buddy that has it and go from there.
I use Lee as a reference a lot but that isn't the final authority ; the data you produce comes close and knowing what it's saying to you. roger

Thanks for the advice everyone. It looks like the "hive mind" is converging on Lyman and Horniday.

On a side note, someone was mentioning that loads on the 54R specify bullet diameter. I was hoping, but was going to ask before I started reloading it, that loads listed would be close enough to the same pressure whether you use a .308 or a .311. Is this not the case?

I've got more than one edition of a bunch of reloading manuals (Nosler, Hornady, Speer, Lyman and others). But recently I've taken to using Loaddata.com. It's worth the ~$30 annual subscription fee, at least to me.

Nosler.Hornady.Lyman.Speer.Barnes.Hodgdon.Alliant.Waters.Sierra and Barsness. I have them all. read them all and continue to read them.

I was looking into getting a second loading manual. I have Lee, Richard. Modern Reloading, 2nd ed. I notice it does not have any loads for 7.62x25 and only a few for 7.62x54mmR. I would like to have more info on these two calibers, but also want one with great general information and front matter. Any suggestions?

Vihtavouri has both calibers on the net.

quote:

Originally posted by Cowboy_Dan:
On a side note, someone was mentioning that loads on the 54R specify bullet diameter. I was hoping, but was going to ask before I started reloading it, that loads listed would be close enough to the same pressure whether you use a .308 or a .311. Is this not the case?

Dan, you are expecting too much... depending upon the bore of YOUR rifle,.... that will determine the bullet you should use.

No matter what you do, putting the wrong size bullet down the bore is going to affect pressures and accuracy. Save yourself a lot of headaches, match the bullet diam to your bore, and don't look back.

It's not just a matter of accuracy, but also a matter of safety, as stuffing an oversize bullet down a rifle bore WILL INCREASE pressure, and you can't predict by how much till your on the firing range, pulling the trigger... with your fingers and face right next to the chamber... with perhaps other people at the range, who don't like getting hit with shrapnel, nor wish to see someone blow their face and fingers off...

Just something to think about.

quote:

Originally posted by Cowboy_Dan:
I was looking into getting a second loading manual. I have Lee, Richard. Modern Reloading, 2nd ed. I notice it does not have any loads for 7.62x25 and only a few for 7.62x54mmR. I would like to have more info on these two calibers, but also want one with great general information and front matter. Any suggestions?

Dan,

This site has the 7.62x54R but no Tokarev:

http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm

Another vote for Lyman.

quote:

Originally posted by mike_elmer:
Dan, you are expecting too much... depending upon the bore of YOUR rifle,.... that will determine the bullet you should use.

No matter what you do, putting the wrong size bullet down the bore is going to affect pressures and accuracy. Save yourself a lot of headaches, match the bullet diam to your bore, and don't look back.

It's not just a matter of accuracy, but also a matter of safety, as stuffing an oversize bullet down a rifle bore WILL INCREASE pressure, and you can't predict by how much till your on the firing range, pulling the trigger... with your fingers and face right next to the chamber... with perhaps other people at the range, who don't like getting hit with shrapnel, nor wish to see someone blow their face and fingers off...

Just something to think about.

Let me be clear that I do understand that. I've slugged my bore at .3113", I was more asking because most of the loads I have seen were for .308 bullets. So, would it be a problem to use .311 bullets in those recipees?

i would sauggest conservative starting loads, but if the difference was significant, i think we'd be reading a lot more stories about people blowing their fingers off.

quote:

Originally posted by Cowboy_Dan:

quote:

Originally posted by mike_elmer:
Dan, you are expecting too much... depending upon the bore of YOUR rifle,.... that will determine the bullet you should use.

No matter what you do, putting the wrong size bullet down the bore is going to affect pressures and accuracy. Save yourself a lot of headaches, match the bullet diam to your bore, and don't look back.

It's not just a matter of accuracy, but also a matter of safety, as stuffing an oversize bullet down a rifle bore WILL INCREASE pressure, and you can't predict by how much till your on the firing range, pulling the trigger... with your fingers and face right next to the chamber... with perhaps other people at the range, who don't like getting hit with shrapnel, nor wish to see someone blow their face and fingers off...

Just something to think about.

Let me be clear that I do understand that. I've slugged my bore at .3113", I was more asking because most of the loads I have seen were for .308 bullets. So, would it be a problem to use .311 bullets in those recipees?

Sorry Dan, I didn't wish to come across as condescending. It is my experience that, when using the proper bullet for the bore, you will use the same data, working up the load with care.

I reloaded for the 7.62x39, and the same situation presented itself, it could be either .308, or .311. The bore on my SKS was .311, and I was using the Hornady .310 123 gr. The load that worked best was well within the range that the reloading manuals gave, as long as the bullet matched the bore.

Regarding the range safety part of my response, I was on the range one day, and I saw a guy shooting a 760 Remington Pump. He was having difficulty opening the action after each shot, and expressed some concern about this. I went over, picked up one of his ejected cases, and asked him what the rifle was chambered for. He said 30-06. I asked if this was one of his spent cases I was holding and he confirmed that it was. I showed him on the head stamp that he was shooting 35 Remington ammo in the 30-06. When asked what he should do now, I recommended that he stop shooting, and take it to a reputable gun smith, and be very honest about what happened. The poor guy simply grabbed the wrong box of ammo, and didn't catch it.

I will never forget that day.

+1

Lyman manuals have been recommended for beginners because the early chapters are very easy to understand and they address the basics accurately.

The loads are also very thorough with pressure tests.

I always cross refer loads from other sources with the Lyman manual to confirm that pressures are safe.

quote:

Originally posted by hivelosity:
I have always liked lyman manuals.

I prefer manuals from bullet manufacturers. My experience is that manuals from powder manufacturers tend to be biased toward their powders, wheras a bullet manufacturer typicaly has no intrest in selling powders. And quite often data for like bullet weights is interchangable (not always) but powder data MUST be specific. In other words, there are no manuals from bullet manufacturers that compare other brands of bullets with different levels of results, thus promoting their product (at least not that I am aware of). Not so with powder manufacturers manuals.

I dont want a sales pitch from a reloading manual, especialy where powder charges are concerned. I want real world data and load comparisons. That being said, powder manufacturers often have free "booklets" listing their load information (I believe the Lee book is basicaly a compilation of these data) and it is also usefull information.

I also like the Lyman manual, but the Hornady, Sierra and Speer manuals are very good as well. Each one contains its own angle on varying, usefull information as well as reliable data with a variety of powders.

quote:

Originally posted by df06:
Another vote for Lyman.

I use Lyman the most, and my Nosler, but also use this one online quite a bit: http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

Hornady and Speer are my two mainmost manuals but I also have Sierra, Nosler, etc, etc. Between the Speer, the Hornady and the powder makers web sites I seldom have need to look at any of the rest.

I have said it before and will say it again, I am not satisfied unless I have every Manual known to man and refer to every site on the web. Main Manuals include Lyman-Nosler-Swift-Barnes. Good shooting.

Cowboy, which book did you decide to go with?