Some help from forum members would be appreciated. There is a burn rate chart at http://www.gsgroup.co.za/burnrate.html that is incomplete. Have a look and let me know what additions and corrections you suggest. I can add more manufacturers as well. Thanks in advance guys.

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Gerard Schultz
GS Custom Bullets

I did notice some locations/powders that I think were incorrect, but then again, I am not a lab or balastictian. I just load a lot and shoot some. Most of what I saw loked ok, but I wonder about your placement of 414, 760, Re 15, and the slower powders. I know it all depends on what you are using the powder in, how it reacts, so maybe you are closer than I think. I also question some of the slower numbers like Re22, 4831, 7828, and 1000. Again, Who knows for sure? Look at the differences in the tables published by Hodgdon, VhitaVuori, Speer, Hornady, and others. They are not identical, in fact, some differ quite a bit on placement of the same numbers. Hard to believe the charts were compiled by people knowing what they were talking about, but they were. Just different labs and different lots with diferent tests and different results. I am not familiar with some of the powders you listed, but you might take a little closer look at the numbers from about Re-15/ N-140 on down to 870. They may need jugeled a bit. It is all relative don't you know.

BP

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Speak softly, but carry a big stick!

Gerard, I've taken to distrusting burn-rate charts. Once you take the published charts (such as Hodgdon and Vihta-Vuori), and compare them, it becomes obvious that there are large differences, seemingly random.

At this time, I most rely on the Nosler manual, which lists powders in order of burn rate, for each cartridge. Often, burn rates change their positions from one cartridge to the next. In any case, I have found it quite helpful. HTH, Dutch.

Quite a few powders on your chart aren't where most charts put them. This one is in agreement with most other current charts:
http://beartoothbullets.com/pdf/powder_burn.pdf

I'll mention a couple of things I noticed, and I'll use Alliant Powders as a standard for the faster powders and IMR for the slower ones. The late Don Zutz said 700-X was a little bit slower than Red Dot. I'd put them on the same line. The W231/HP28 twins are slower than Green Dot. 800-X is much slower than Unique and belongs between Herco and Blue Dot.

The magnum revolver crowd rates 2400 faster than the W296/H110 twins and 4227 slower. H322 is slower than 3031 in my .222.

My first and last jug of H4350 was from the first lot of the short cut stuff and was at least 100 fps faster than IMR 4350 with the same weight in my .30-06.

Alliant dropped Reloder 12, and the .35 Remington crowd isn't happy Some people think Alliant speeded up Reloader 15, 19, and 22 after they dropped 12 and introduced 25.

Winchester dropped a bunch recently. I think they're down to W231, W296, WST, WSF, 748, 760 and WXR.

Your chart system makes more sense than numbering them consecutively, since there's little difference between some of them. Bob Forker did it your way for a chart in Guns&Ammo some years ago.

Burnt Powder's and Dutch's cautions are relevant.

Bye
Jack

Thanks for the input so far guys. I took the chart as far as I could on my own and, with hindsight, should have brought it here sooner. It is not the kind of project that can be done by one person, I certainly do not have that kind of experience with all the powders. The suggested changes will go up during the week and I will appreciate it if you would keep them coming.

With the fact that burnrates do change, dependant on many factors, I think it would be prudent to regard powders within four lines of one another as basically similar. Four lines OK - or should it be same line, plus one above and one below for three?

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Gerard Schultz
GS Custom Bullets

Hi, Gerald:
I'm no ballistician, but a 4 line overlap implies that the Alliant shotgun powders overlap. They don't at shotgun pressures. One up and one down should do. However, Alliant's data seems to indicate that Bulleye is faster than Red Dot below 10,000 psi, but slower above.

Go over to: http://www.loadyourown.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi
and see if you can raise Ed Harris. He was on the NRA's technical staff and understands this stuff.

Winchester 760 and H414 are twins and faster than IMR 4350.

Bye
Jack

My observations and experience:

H335 is faster than BLC-2 in almost all applications, especially as case size increases.

BLC-2, WW 748, and WC 844 are essentially the same powders.

N 135 should be a couple of lines faster than shown on your chart.

IMR 4320 should be a couple of lines faster, since it is only very marginally slower than 4064 and 4895.

H 414 and WW 760 are made to the same basic specs and are should be on the same line as IMR 4350, as should N 160 which you show to be slower than it actually is.

Thanks for the efforts and good luck hashing this out.

Stonecreek, The places where I buy my powder places 846 as the same as bl-c2.

Toto, I stand corrected. Should have said WC 846. WC 844 (or is it 842? can't recall) is a clone to H-335.

[This message has been edited by Stonecreek (edited 01-21-2002).]

Stonecreek, what Ive learned concerning the surplus powders I can attribute to you, back when we were talking about the 7stw. Did you ever get to the farm to see what your load actually was using 872 or 860. If so e-mail me. thanks fws

I have done some updating with the info you guys gave. There is another manufacturer added and a lot of powders shifted around. Have a look and let me know what you think, especially with regard to the powders printed in red. I have had a request to add surplus powders and info on that is welcome.

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Gerard Schultz
GS Custom Bullets

I'm curious where H4831-SC falls into the groups. I didn't see it on any of the lists. What does the SC stand for. I'm fairly new to reloading and the info I'm reading on this site is great. Thanks.

Curly, SC stands for Short Cut. It is said to be identical in burn rate to the current H4831. HTH, Dutch.

Gerard, to add another line to your chart, in my PPC, Western Powder's Ramshot TAC is about the same burn rate as H335. Exterminator is somewhere around H322. HTH, Dutch.

Thanks Dutch. Do you know where the Ramshot powders "Big Game" and "Magnum" would fall in the burn rate list?

Curly, I have read that Big Game burns something like W760 (between H380 and H414). I have not heard anything about magnum (big boy). If you have questions, give Ramshot a call. Nice people. FWIW, Dutch.