I am pretty frustrated. I have a nice load worked up for a custom '03 Springfield 30-06 :
56 gr. H-4350
Fed 210 primer
180 Nosler Ballistic Tip
Velocity 2740 fps ave.
Ave. group size .771"

I was pretty happy with this load so I decided to do the load with a real hunting bullet. I then loaded some Barnes 180 gr. TSX's and some Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. Both of these loads shot about 1.5" at best. Some of the groups were a little larger. I'm thinking about trying Swift A-Frames. I'd like to hear some ideas first. BTW all bullets were loaded .020" off the lands except the Barnes, which were .050" per manufacturer recommendations.

Geronomo

It's not unusual to change bullets and have accuracy fall off. Try the 180 grain Nosler Accubonds. They are interchangeable in my 30-06 and 300 RUM with the same weight Ballistic Tips, using the same load recipe.

That's the same load I have been using in my 06 since 1958 ..(only I use IMR 4350-) Nosler partition 180's drop deer like a load of bricks .. I guess if it works don't fix it..mpb

Hot Core has lots of good info. I have found better accuracy with X bullets in the lighter weight. 150 grain standard X has been my choice in my 30/06. The Nosler partition is a no brainer to use also. The Ballistic Tip is known for great accuracy. This used to be or still is Kenny Jarrett's bullet of choice when testing his custom rifles. I know he charged the customer money to work up a load with X bullets. I have found X bullets like the speed too for best accuracy.

Good Luck. Let us know what happens

Hcliff

If your not hunting anything larger than Deer than the BT's ARE a real hunitng bullet!!

My nephew took a nice bull Elk last year with 165 BT's and an 06, not my choice of loads but it can be done. Ive got some recovered 8mm 180 grain bt's that were shot into a hillside with the most unbelievable mushrooms ive seen, theyre huge! Their retained weight is 109 grns and 115 grns, not bad for supposed varmint bullets fired into "dirt" @ 75 yds/2600fs.

As for loosing accuracy after switching from bt's to Barnes, you werent really suprised about that were you?

For larger game I second the bonded polymer tip suggestion, you end up with a bullet that is comparable to the vaunted North forks for a fraction of the cost.

"Velocity 2740 fps ave"
Your right in the velocity window where BT's proform best. Be happy and go hunting.
Where the BT's fall short (over expand) is out of a high velocity "super mag" at close ranges.

Try North Forks. You will get more velocity from the same load and an outstanding bullet that is very accurate and bore friendly.

All the best,

Sam

W/ the velocity you've mentioned, the NBTs would be a great choice for hunting anything from whitetails to elk. I know several guys that get excellent penetration and expansion w/ 180 NBTs in their 300 Win. Mags.

The NBTs in 180 are designed for Big Game. They are not like the Varmint Ballistic Tips.

At low impact velocities the "Hard to Destruct" bullets don't expand well at all.

Good Luck!

Reloader

As mentioned by others, you don't have a problem to fix if you're hunting deer size game. The Nosler BT at the speed your getting is a fine choice.
I have had mixed results with the Barnes X as far as accuracy. Partitions seem to be easier to find an accurate load for.
As far as "real" hunting bullets go, don't buy all the "premiums required" crap! I sectioned some bullets so see how they are constructed, shoot them into water filled milk jugs and compare them. Capturing a fired bullet allows you to see the mushroom, and compareing how many jugs it goes through will give a penatration comparison. I've found that some of the "standard" bullets at moderate velocities were "perfect" and are way cheaper. You can practice all summer with "hunting" rounds. High velocities is when the premiums will really be worth the $$$.

Incidently, I tried to catch a 100 gr. Barnes X out of my .257 Roberts. With the Nosler BT it was usually in the fourth jug, with the Barnes in passed through eight! Not scientific I know but a cheap way to compare them.

My load development choice is the 180BT which is adequate for any deer or antelope you'll shoot in North America. For African game, I switch to Partitions, which are adequate for anything you'll ever shoot a o6 at anywhere. Like you, I use a full charge of 4350 and a 210 FC primer. Partitions are, as someone already said, a no-brainer. Ku-dude

Geronimo, I also don't think you got a problem if deer is your quarry. Go hunting. If you want something bigger, bear, moose etc. I would suggest that you will not be hunting where the target is small and far away. 2 inches is fine for hunting ammo. Don't rush to a hard bullet for deer unless you are pushing magnum velocities. I lost a doe last year shooting 168 gr barnes xlc's in my '06. The shot was at about 30 yards and I put the bullet tight behind the shoulder in the ribs. She stood for just a thought like she wasn't sure there was a problem. When she ran she ran out some trails with lots of deer tracks. No blood. Never found a sign. I think the bullet punched through without hitting even a rib going in and out. I think the harder Barnes X may not have opened until it hit the dirt. Could I have missed? Yep. I have missed before. I don't think this time. Had a solid rest and 30 minutes to take the shot. If you plan on using a hard bullet, aim to hit bone on the way in. Good hunting. "D"

Geronomo,



I have loaded the 180 NBT for my 300 win mag and I took a shot on an elk that was approximately 350 yards. I barely clipped the shoulder and that bullet exploded and did not go any farther. It wiped out the whole right front quarter and I even had pieces through the lungs and stomach. The pieces did not go more than 4 or 5 inches straight through the animal yet had a damage diameter of approximately 2 feet extending from the front of the shoulder to the stomach. She ran quite a ways before she stopped and I plugged her again.



I use the NBTs on deer but use partitions on elk. Give them a try and start closer to the lands (.005") and vary seating depth. I have seen a big improvement in accuracy when verying seating depth and for my 270 I am right at the lands and for my 300WM, I am .005" off (also, in my 22-250 I can get .2" groups regularly and was not able to get less than .6" until I seated back .01" off the lands). Get a stoney point bullet comparator or the one from sinclairs if you have not done so already. For bullets with similar configurations (in general), your seating depth measured by the comparator will not change.

I'd try the Northforks as they are such an accurate bullet and they work 100% on game...The Nosler partition is another good choice, I have use the 180 Nosler successfully for everything in the world just about...and it is accurate as a rule in all my guns...
Swifts and Barnes will either shoot or not shoot, and I have seen many guns that would not digest those two brands and others that loved them..

is this load for deer? the 180-grain seems awfully big. 165s would even be on the large side.

considering your barnes preference, i would recommend a 150-grain bullet for deer.

if you are after elk or something of that size, then disregard everything i just said.

Thanks for all the replies. This gun will probably be my light gun on my annual trip to Africa in August. 180 grs. should be about the right bullet weight. I just hate settling for 1.5-1.75" when I know the gun is capable of shooting under an inch.

Geronimo

How many times do you shoot hogs at over 200 yards? Since its a specialty load and I see more hogs at 70-80 yards, I think they are already minute of hogs.

geronomo -



considering the game you intend to shoot at, i must certainly say that your choice of a barnes-style bullet is definitely prudent! it looks like you have accuracy which "should" be more than acceptable for hunting; however, if you want to try to shrink the groups a little, it might be worth trying the nosler partition or swift a-frame. i have heard (not experienced) that either or both bullets has some very good accuracy.

If I were going to Africa with a 30-06 for your light rifle I would approach this differently than you have. I think Hot Core had some good thoughts. As many have suggested, the obvious bullet of choice is the Nosler Partition.

I recently got 1/2 moa with two different 06 rifles, a 98 Mauser and an 03 Springfield with 22 and 24 inch barrels respectively. The load came out of Nosler's fifth edition page 311. It is 56.0 of AA-3100 with the 200 gr Accubond. Notice that it is the * load for that powder, or what Nosler found to be the most accurate with that powder.

I am not suggesting the Accubond load as I have no first hand experience with game. If you want to use the 180 grain bullet look at pg 310 and Nosler designates AA-3100 as the most accurate powder they tried for that weight bullet. In this case, the minimum load of 54.5 grains is the * load or most accurate powder charge. I would suggest taking the 180 Nosler Partition, starting at 54.5 grains of AA-3100 and going up progressively to 58.5 grains at a reported 2780 fps and checking the accuracy all the way. It is very likely you may find a combination of velocity and accuracy you can live with. Use Win cases and WLR primers as Nosler has done. You can vary bullet seating depth to the extent your rifles magazine and rifling will allow. I'd be very surprised if something doesn't work out to your satisfaction.

My only criticism of the Nosler data is that they have not used any temperature stable powders like Re-15 and Hodgdon Extreme powder which I would prefer for Africa.

My typical approach to developing an accurate and suitable load is to go to the Nosler data, Pg 310, pick a minimum powder charge with an * designation next to it and is suitable for the cartridge. Then at this comparatively accurate and minimum powder charge try and array of bullets that might be suitable for my purpose. Deer bullets might be one thing, elk bullets another, and African bullets definitely premiums on one kind or another. Then go to the range and record the results. Determine which bullet(s) the rifle barrel likes. Now, using that bullet, evaluate various powders at various charge levels.

Sometimes we get lucky and the most accurate powder charge of the most accurate powder is a maximum charge and gives high velocity as well. See, for example, pg308 where RL 19 at 61.5 gives 2982 fps with 150 grain bullets. In the case of the 180 and 200 grain bullets we are not so blessed. Nevertheless, AA-3100 looks likely to give a reasonably good performance. This approach is worth a try.