Model 70 24" barrel in 270.
H100V 53.5grs CCIbr2 primer 140gr Hornady SPBT.
Remington cases.
Shot great with this wimpy barrel. going to load another 20 rounds at this weight and see if it will duplicate the results.

Nice group, now to see if it is repeatable... I'm not familiar with that powder - it would be interesting to know the velocity.

the powder was out in 2007, http://bulletin.accurateshoote...00v-and-supreme-780/ The book Velocity is from 2750 to 2950 I will do a work up for 53.5grs and different seating depths and see how it turns out.
This will be a hunting load so It needs to fit and feed good.

That question was answered many years ago by Jack O'Connor who used the 270 into mortality..
that is today 58 grs. of H4831. Jack quoted 62 grs. but he used old WW2 surplus H4831 and it gave 3200 or better FPS with a 130 gr. bullet and at less pressure than any of todays powder, but 58 grs of IMR or H 4831 is still the powder of most 270 users as far as I can tell..I use RL-22 sometimes and lots of good powder out there, but the old load is recognized as a marriage made in heaven to this day.

I happen to have about 40 lbs of old WW2 H4831, the stuff Jack used, had a 150 lbs to start it.
I still use his 62 grs. but with a 150 gr. bullet in my rifle, its fast as hell, but not hot..more velocity, less pressue..Why can't they do that today?

Ray

"Why can't they do that today?"

THEY did! It is called R-26

Bill

Sorry Ray Missed your post.
I have used H4831 and H4831SC for quiet a few years. My old stock from about 2000 ran out. I picked up a pound of short cut and my old load did not work very well, it would still kill a deer.
so I thought I would try something new. Read a couple reviews on the HXXXXV and thought I would give it a try.
I missed out on the old mil surplus 4831

nice group. never heard of the powder.
i'll stick with my 54.5 grains of IMR4350 with WLR primer and any good 130

I use RE22 with 150gr Partitions, a stiff load of 58gr sees 2980fps in my 22” barrel.

Cheers.

I didn't like H4831SC either. It didn't meter as well as did regular H4831.

I used Vihtavouri N160 to get a nice 2,850fps with 150 grains in my 24" barrel .270 WCF.

quote:

I didn't like H4831SC either. It didn't meter as well as did regular H4831...

Very odd, the SC powder meters much better for me than the long grained version because....the grains are smaller! My RCBS Uniflow was always chopping the long grains, not so with the SC powder.


.

With 150s I have found R22 and a compressed load of Retumbo to be very accurate. 140s I have found R19, R22, and R17 to be very accurate with the best velocity. I cannot find the picture at the moment but I have a 140 Scirroco load that was .38 with a max load of R19.

*****Edited**** My mistake, my info is for a 270WSM not standard 270.

30 years ago I tried a load in my 270's I have never ventured away from.

130 gr Nosler partition
Rem 9 1/2 primer
Winchester brass
61.5 Gr RL 22

A lot of reloading publications have over the years suggested dropping that charge to 59 gr. or so.
I never have in 3-4 of my 270's. Will shoot 3200-3250FPS in all of them and shoot clover leafs even in featherweight rifles.
Never an extraction issue due to pressure in any of my 270's.
It may be boring but why mess with something so good.

EZ

quote:

quote:I didn't like H4831SC either. It didn't meter as well as did regular H4831...

[quote] TX Nimrod
Very odd, the SC powder meters much better for me than the long grained version because....the grains are smaller! My RCBS Uniflow was always chopping the long grains, not so with the SC powder.

That is why the Short Cut was developed to meter better in a powder thrower..

yes, you'd think that the SC would meter better. I was using a Lyman 55A with knocker. Maybe it just didn't like that type of thrower? It, SC, was always seeming to "bridge" just above the drop tube.

I have 2 good loads for my 270 Winchester.
58.5gr of RL23 using 140gr Accubond with CCI250
primers and Win cases 3.260OAL. At 3044FPS. Or
59gr of Norma MRP with 150gr Nosler Partitions CCI250 Primers and Win Cases 3.300 OAL at 3090fps. RL26 can beat these speeds but not as
accurate in my rifles.

Superformance is very accurate in 270 Win
with 140gr Accubonds. My load does about
3040fps with the accubonds.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
That question was answered many years ago by Jack O'Connor who used the 270 into mortality..
that is today 58 grs. of H4831. Jack quoted 62 grs. but he used old WW2 surplus H4831 and it gave 3200 or better FPS with a 130 gr. bullet and at less pressure than any of todays powder, but 58 grs of IMR or H 4831 is still the powder of most 270 users as far as I can tell..I use RL-22 sometimes and lots of good powder out there, but the old load is recognized as a marriage made in heaven to this day.

I happen to have about 40 lbs of old WW2 H4831, the stuff Jack used, had a 150 lbs to start it.
I still use his 62 grs. but with a 150 gr. bullet in my rifle, its fast as hell, but not hot..more velocity, less pressue..Why can't they do that today?

I don't remember any place in Jacks writing where his loads were actually Chronograph or checked for pressure.

The old Reloading books and factory loads were very generous with their velocities and pressure estimates.

plus Jacks scale was off.
his loads weren't as high as he [honestly] thought they were.

Plus only a few people seem to get the really fast barrels all the time.

My Chronograph says I get all the real slow ones.

Those lucky dogs.

59 gr rl22 and a 150 Berger to 3050 fps in. 25" barrel.
Or 56 h4350 with the same bullet at 3010 fps.

Today my 24 inch barrel Remington 700 with a 150 Partition and RL 26 produced 3065 fps. I stopped 1 grain short of Alliant's maximum for a 150 grain bullet. RL 26 works, in my rifle anyway.

Regards

H414 and RL-22 give great velocities and easy to meter, and that I like..but with 40 lbs. or old surplus 3831 I need to shoot it up..I originally had a 150 lb SS canister with a seal clamp top encased in a heavy wood frame which I now use for oats...

P-dog and Lamar,
I have chronographed a lot of .270 loads, all the ones I use and a hundred others..Jack quoted his loads of 4831 and IMR-4064 in the 270 and 30-06 many times in print, so apparently he had a chronograph, Ive never known a gun scribe that didn't have one..and his quoted loads match mine for all practical purposes..His loads were right up there, but have worked for me for many years..

P dog shooter, I have one of those in 7mm Mag. It,s a model 70 Super grade Runs about 150 to
175fps slower than My weatherby Vanguard S2.
Plus the Vanguard is more accurate. Go figure.

Just came back from range 58.5 gr of RL23
was most sccurate load in my Sako A7 shooting
Federal Trophy Bonded Tipped bullets Win cases
215M primers and OAL is 3.260. Superformance
powder was second most accurate powder. Rl23
has been most accurate powder in this rifle since I got it. And 2 others, a model 70 and a
Vanguard S2.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
yes, you'd think that the SC would meter better. I was using a Lyman 55A with knocker. Maybe it just didn't like that type of thrower? It, SC, was always seeming to "bridge" just above the drop tube.

I would be checking your Lyman powder measure, I've used one of these for decades and never experienced bridging with any powder. H4831SC is the same powder as H4831, with both being Australian made and known as AR2213 and AR2213SC in our parts. The SC version is produced to minimise cutting of powder kernels as you can get with coarser extruded powder.

I always adjust just the main barrel on my Lyman 55 to I get the charge I want without using the finer vernier brass slides i.e. start with barrel and slides fully closed then adjust the complete barrel. A bit slower and fiddly to get the exact charge but can be done and then when the handle is thrown the powder charge drops from one position down into the drop tube rather than spread across the funnel into the drop tube as it will if using the vernier slides.

I have listed some before but here straight from the horses mouth are the powders made in Australia by ADI and renamed for Hodgdon sales. ADI produce comprehensive reloading data which is updated regularly, Hodgdon basically just reprint the ADI data as their own.

Thank you for your recent enquiry with regard to reloading using ADI Sporting powders.
Some ADI propellants are sold in the US by the Hodgdon Powder Company, including AR2208 which is sold as Varget. It is the same powder.
Attached is a listed of other powders sold in the US under the Hodgdon brand.
Extreme caution should be taken and loads should be worked up accordingly. Refer to our website at ADI Powders Handloaders' Guide or our hand-loaders’ guide for more information, warnings and reloading safety.
We thank you for using ADI Sporting Powders.
Yours Sincerely

ADI Technical Centre

ADI / Hodgdon Propellants
ADI Powder/Hodgdon naming
AS30N.................Clays
Trail Boss............Trail Boss
AS50N.................International
AP70N.................Universal
AR2205................H4227
AR2207................H4198
AR2219................H322
BM2...................Benchmark
AR2206H...............H4895
AR2208................Varget
AR2209................H4350
AR2213SC..............H4831/H4831SC
AR2217................H1000
AR2225................Retumbo
AR2218................H50BMG

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
30 years ago I tried a load in my 270's I have never ventured away from.

130 gr Nosler partition
Rem 9 1/2 primer
Winchester brass
61.5 Gr RL 22

A lot of reloading publications have over the years suggested dropping that charge to 59 gr. or so.

Thank you for this. I am going to work up to this and see how it does in my 700

I've read jack Oconnor for many years. According to his writing he was friends with Vernon Speer and lived just down the road from him. Speers did his chronographing. He also sent his loads to remington for pressure testing. This was with war surplus H4831.
I would also confirm Ray Atkinsons findings. I still have a couple of lbs of war surplus H4831 and compared that with new H4831. In a 270 with 130 gr bullet and 60 gr of each the old stuff was 75 ft faster and what appeared to be lower pressure.

quote:

Originally posted by bbell:
I've read jack Oconnor for many years. According to his writing he was friends with Vernon Speer and lived just down the road from him. Speers did his chronographing. He also sent his loads to remington for pressure testing. This was with war surplus H4831.
I would also confirm Ray Atkinsons findings. I still have a couple of lbs of war surplus H4831 and compared that with new H4831. In a 270 with 130 gr bullet and 60 gr of each the old stuff was 75 ft faster and what appeared to be lower pressure.

Your findings are correct. It seems nothing quite beats the old surplus H4831 for the 270Win, it just seems to have exactly the right burn rate for that cartridge.

The Scottish produced, Nobel, H4831 made for Hodgdon after his surplus supplies ran out was a little faster burning than the original and the Aussie manufactured H4831 we get now is also faster than the old surplus stuff, probably duplicates the earlier Nobel powder.
Compared to all three Hodgdon powders IMR4831 is slightly faster burning again but don't get Ray Atkinson started on this, it is his perfect powder for the 404 Jeffery cartridge (I use it too for my 404).

quote:

Originally posted by bbell:
I've read jack Oconnor for many years. According to his writing he was friends with Vernon Speer and lived just down the road from him. Speers did his chronographing. He also sent his loads to remington for pressure testing.

In 1982 I met with Dave Andrews, of Speer bullets, editor of the Reloading Manuals of the day and other positions. He told me that Jack would bring ammo to him and have it tested in the Speer equipment for accuracy, velocity and their method of pressure testing. So while Jack may have not mentioned specifically how he knew what the velocity etc of a particular load was, he had the options available to him to gain the information, so I believe what he wrote.

Thank you for these powder suggestions. I am beginning to reload for this caliber. Going to try some 130's, 150's and maybe some 160gr Partitions.

I've chrono'd a max charge of RL-22 & 150 grain Partitions outta 22" barreled .270 Win rifles at slightly better than 3000 FPS.

I've read that RL-22 & Norma MRP are identical powders.

RL-22 might just be better powder and produce lower pressure that H-4831.

I think I've just committed heresy ;-)

I still love H-4831. It works a whole lot better than one would assume.

Hi Ray B,

Jack O'Connor wrote that a loader can't put enough H-4831 into a .270 Win case to cause it to become not safe. I've never tested his theory. 60 grains gives me outstanding accuracy.

In Ken Water's Pet Loads there's part of an O'Conner writing that indicates he used 62 grains of H-4831 in .270 Win cases with 130 grain bullets.

IMR-7228 might deserve a look. I've read that it's superb .270 Win powder: excellent velocity, low pressure.

Rifles vary. I'm still using a hoarded supply of Surplus 4831 in my Sako .270 with (also a hoarded supply of discontinued) Nosler 130 grain Solid Base bullets. 58.5 grains of this powder yields a chronographed (and double-checked on the Oehler 35) velocity of 3200 fps. Add any more powder and you get a sticky bolt. A friend's 22" Winchester used 60 grains of the same powder to push a 130 grain bullet at only 3050 fps without pressure indications.

I've found that IMR7828SSC is about 3-5% slower than Surplus 4831. Or, put another way, you get similar performance using IMR7828SSC by increasing powder weight by 3-5% over the amount of Surplus 4831 used. This works even in full case capacity loads since the SSC powder packs more densely than conventional longer-kernel powders, allowing that 3-5% increase in weight.

By the way, I've found that the current Australian H-4831 is slower than Surplus 4831 (while the current IMR4831 is so much faster that it is misleading to use the same number designation.) I've not had much luck with Australian 4831, but your mileage may vary.

Hi Stonecreek,

You have exquisite taste in .270 Win rifles. I have a Sako AV .270 Win with a 22" barrel. I use 60 grains of H-4831 & 130 grain GameKings w/o any indication of pressure. I haven't chrono'd it out of my Sako. Out of my Model 700, it chronos @ ~3030 FPS.

I agree with your take on IMR-7828. While I haven't used it, I've yet to read a negative review of it.

Using RL-22, I can get 3000 FPS with RL-22 & 150 grain Partitions. This is my .270 Win elk load.

I do like to experiment. I'm sure I'll do a lot of experimenting if I'm drawn for desert bighorn in '19. But I doubt that I could improve on the very tiny groups 60 grains of H-4831.

If I can figure out how to post a photo of an ~.25" group I shot, I will. It's in my photo file. I shot it with my 45+ year-old Model 700. My Sako will shoot every bit as good.

I've used H4831SC and Norma MRP with great results with 150g Partitions. Both powders will get the bullets going just over 3000 fps with excellent (about .5 MOA) accuracy from our Rem BDL in 270 with a 22" barrel

There are powders that come real close to Jacks loads but they do it at high pressure. His hot load of 62 grs of the surplus stuff is real low around 48,000 PSI Ive read and believe..and its super accurate in my guns and cases last forever it more than just velocity, but to each his own and I need to use it up..and yes it is awesome powder in the 404 Jefferys that I hunted mostly with in Africa..

But push comes to shove there are a lot of powders out there for the 270 and the real difference is minor in the killing fields..This thread has become verbal masturbation!!