Howdy All,
This is my first time to converse on the forum. New to the site. Hoping someone can provide sources for data on 30-06 Ackley Improved. Information/data is scarce to non-existent. Please point me in the right direction.
Thanks,
NM Bassman

I believe Nosler has it in their manual as might Hornady. Good luck.

NM Bassman,

Perfect timing for this post. I am having a rifle re-barreled and this cartridge and the 338-06 AI is what I have narrowed down my choices to. Since I have a 338 WM, the 30-06 AI will probably win out. Do you have a 30-06 AI? How's the load development going?

C-ROY

I am currently loading 64gr. of RL 22 with a Hornady 180gr. SP for a velocity around 2950fps. This is from a rebarreled Rem. 700 BDL with a 24" barrel. This load is 2grs higher than the max listed load in the Nosler manual (the only manual that lists loads except for the Ackley books) so start low and work your way up to be safe in your rifle. I was a little hesitant to do the Ackley chamber at first but with the velocities and the groups I am now getting, who needs a 300 Mag? I think the 30-06 Ack. is an outstanding and often underestimated round. If you have one built, I think you'll be just as happy as I am.
Good Luck!
Elk Country

[ 12-17-2002, 01:59: Message edited by: Elk Country ]

I was going to get a custom rifle in .30-06, how does the .30-06 handle factory .30-06 ammo?

I might consider this, since there is really no difference in cost.

NM Bassman
I copied the 30-06 AI page from Speeer #5, which I found at our local library, about ten years ago while I was working with a rifle in this caliber.
Tell me which bullet weights and powder type you are interested in and I will post that data here.
Another alternative would be to buy RCBS Load 2.88, it includes almost any out of print data manual you could imagine. After purchasing the product, you must go online and pay a nominal "typing fee" to get a key code to unlock the manual which you are interested in.
When loading for the 30-06 AI, you can use the data included in any manual for 30-06 Springfield. You will likely reach maximum loadings in the 30-06 AI with just a 2 to 5 grains more powder than listed in the manuals as max for the 30-06 Sp.
I didn't have my Chrony at that time, nor do I have any reloading notes left from that period. So I can't report to you the loads I used. I remember that I was most pleased with H 4831 with 180 and 190 gr bullets.
I had the magazine {Mauser 98) lengthened and the throat extended so that a 165 Balistic Tip when loaded to maximum length, only had about 1/8 in of bearing surface in the neck of the case.
Good luck with your rifle,
Idaho Shooter

I have had the best luck with I4831. 62 grains and a 180 gr. Nosler Partition has given me 2920 FPS at about 60,000 psi (m43). This is with a Remington 700 with a 24" Shilen barrel. I tried RL 22 like Elk Country, but in my rifle only got 2835 with 63 grains. Start low and work up. I plan to try some VV N550 as soon as I finish some other projects

RL22 in my 30-06AI gives low velocity, I get my best results with 4350 or 4831. - Dan

Everyone,

Thanks, and I can only express my amazement and appreciation at the response. I have found a new home! To clarify a bit: the rifle is in the building stage; Mod 70, controlled feed, 26" barrel(1 in 10) with all the expected accuracy work done. At this point I am searching for load development data. Looks like I found the right folks to help.

You can get the same results with the new enhanced 30-06 ammo from Hornady and Federal....

The only rounds worth improving were the 250 Sav., 257 Roberts and 7x57 according to P.O. Ackley....I agree with that..

The 30-06 will give you 100 FPS, on a chronograph if loaded within specs...Is it worth it, that is up to you.

I always liked the late Tony Barnes remarks on improved cartridges, "Don't blow the shoulder out, just put 4 more grains of powder in them" meaning that most wildcatters reached their claims with very hot loads....

As to the std. 30-06, it is a heck of a round just like it stands...I can think of no better. I base that on use and observation in the fild.

I hate to dissagree with you Ray but Ackley thought the '06 was a good candidate to improve. In his "Handbook For Shooters and Reloaders, Vol. 1" he says that alot of the people that discount the '06 imp. as being a viable round would carefully leave out the data that shows the true potential of the improved version. I will admit that the round is only a handloaders project but I am receiving a velocity increase of around 200fps compared to my standard 06 before the rebarrel job. That's pretty significant, if you ask me, and it makes a great cartridge even better in my eyes!
Elk Country

P.S. I also have a 257 Rob. imp. and it truely is a great round!

I'll be back in a few minutes after I go turn off my "BS" alarm and put on my hip boots....

DB Bill,
Those boots won't need to be very high!
Unfortunately my chrony does not have paper printouts otherwise I would scan them and you could read them for yourself. I was lucky to be getting 2750fps out of the old 06 barrel, now with the 24" 06imp. barrel I am averaging right at the 2950fps mark. Last time I did the math that was 200fps difference. I'm sorry if you haven't seen results such as mine, but it's the honest truth! As Ripley would say "Belive it, or not"
Elk Country

Some years ago I built a an Ackley Improved 30-06 for a friend on a Mauser action and while I was at it I rechambered an '03 Springfield for myself. I found the best results with 180 grain bullets, with the following chronographed loads. 4 groove 03 barrel 24" long.

180gr Speer bullets, FA match cases, IMR 4831 powder, CCI 200 primers.

Chg(gr)Vel(fps)
60.0 2820
62.0 2889
63.0 2921
64.0 2954
65.0 3012

elk country....first let me apologize as I know there are barrels out there that are simply "faster" than others..even those made by the same maker using all the same tools. It's one of those facts of life that can't be explained but I don't think most could expect the more than 7% improvement you got. Just think what you could get if you rechambered to 300 Win Mag.

The problem is I didn't read your post closely enough as you clearly state you re-barreled and I missed that. In my own defense I've known more than a few shooters over the years who have rechambered their existing '06 barrels to the AI version and the improvement has probably averaged out closer to 75 fps than 100 fps.

DB,
No apologies neccessary!!
I would agree with you that rechambering my factory 22" barrel would have not been worth the modest gain. The rifle is owned by my dad but when my parents moved a few years ago, I confiscated it and he just told me to keep it as he hasn't hunted for almost 25 years now. I had the factory barrel taken off and it can be put back on anytime I want to return it to it's original configuration. I originally wanted a 26" tube but the smith didn't have one in his shop so I went with the 24".
As for the 300 win. point you brought up, I sold a 300 to my hunting buddy while the 06imp. was being built. I really didn't see the point of having two rifles that gave basically the same performance. I realize the '06imp. is 100-150fps. slower than the 300win. but I doubt an elk would ever know the difference. Plus I can shove 4 in the magazine and 1 in the chamber vs. 3 and 1 for the magnum.
Good hunting!
Elk Country

The new Nosler manual lists 2985fps with 62gr of R22 with a 180gr bullet so I don't think that Elk Country is pulling our legs. A lot better than the 2700 with the factory 06.

Dale.....I looked at the loads they used and it just confuses me.....if those powders work so well in the AI version why don't they use them in the regualr '06 as the increase in capacity isn't that much and the sharper shoulder doesn't contribute to efficiency. My feeling is they have a "fast" barrel for the '06 Imp .

I suppose we could look at the results of both chamberings in the same barrel. I did this with the barrel mentioned above. These tests are by no means comprehensive. Didn't do a whole lot of different powders etc. But here is a start:

24" '03 barrel (same barrel as post above), 180 gr speer bullet, WCC45 cases, CCI primers, IMR 4831 powder.

Charge Velocity
58.5 2740
59.5 2773
60.5 2789
61.0 2834

My cousin has a 30-06 Improved and I load his rounds for him. I don't remember the charge, but I use H4831 and 180 grain bullets. Personally I don't see how the hassle of having to fireform cases would make it worthwhile to have an Ackley cartridge. If I wanted a cartridge with similar ballistics I would go with the 300 WSM. It's nice knowing you can buy loaded cartridges at the store if needed. However, I do think it's a great cartridge, but just not that much better than the standard '06.

Bill
I agree that is most likely a fast barrel that Nosler tested But It is no trick to get 2800fps + out of a 30 06 with a 24" tube and a 180 grainer. Then if you improve it and get the usual 100 to 150 fps increase then you are right up there with the new short mags. Most factory 30 06 use the same loads and the same powders they did 30 or 40 years ago and there are alot of new powders on the market today for us handloaders to try. Federal and Hornaday have some souped up loads now. The others need to follow suit.
As far as the old tale that poeple don't load the standard cartridges to the same pressures as they load improved cartridges does not fly with me. I have worked both the 257 ackley and the 35 whelen imp along with the standard 257 Roberts and the standard 35 Whelen and I have flattened many a primer in them all. If anything I have loaded the standard cartridges a lot hotter trying to get what the improved ones do with mild pressures.
As far as the 30 06 imp, I have not worked with one yet, but I would think that it should get a honest 100 to 150fps more like my 35 Whelen IMP does. Like Ray says the 250 savage and the 257 Roberts are the best canadates for improvement as they will give 200fps + with some bullet weights. Don't Improve any gum that you might plan to sell at some point.
Just my point of view.
Dale

Bill
Nosler most likely used the same barrel to get there load data. After they got through testing the stanard 30 06 loads they just rechambered the barrel to the 30 06 Improved and started again. Saves them a lot of money when they use a universal receiver for load testing.
Dale

Speaking of modern components, here's a load I've worked up in my "regular" 30-06.

190gr Sierra Matchking, Moly-coated
63gr RL-22
Fed 210
Norma case
26" Douglas barrel
Velocity 2903 fps

Quickload estimated 2907 fps, and pressure of 63K psi.

MM