I've been working up a 338 win mag load for my new 24" Weatherby Vanguard Sporter (walnut stock) using RL-19, Fed mag rifle primers, and 250 grain Sierra BTSP bullets. The rifle has been glass bedded and free floated. OAL using a bullet comparator is set at .020" off the lands. A rough estimate of a max load is about 72 grains, according to the manuals, but at 71.5 grains, I was already seeing mid to upper 2700 fps for most and a few at 2800 fps. Bolt lift had already started to become sticky at 71.5. I didn't even bother firing the 72 grain loads. Primers looked completely normal.

What I found with my initial loading was that the 71.0 grain load had an extremely low velocity variation for six rounds (single digit), and put three of them in one hole at 100 yards and 3 more in another group of about 1.50+ inches. Velocities hovered around 2700 fps. Exploring the 71.0 grain load more, I loaded up 20 more and found that half the groups were under an inch, but the rest were around 2 inches. It simply isn't consistent. One 3 shot group will be fantastic, and the next one will be much larger.

At 71.5 grains, which I believe is too hot, the 9 rounds I fired all clustered at one inch or less for three, 3 shot groups.

What would be your recommendation at this point? Drop the charge weight and see if accuracy improves? Experiment with seating depth at this point with the 71.0 grain load? I'm just not used to a load that shoots great one group and not so hot for another. I would be willing to sacrifice a small amount of accuracy for consistency in group sizes. Ideas?

Russell420

This sounds about normal from my view point. Three shot groups don't tell us very much about accuracy. When judging accuracy I shoot 5-5shot groups and average them. There is normally about a 100% variation between the smallest and largest groups.
It sounds to me like you have a good rifle, that is shooting good loads. I wouldn't be satisfied with those groups for my prairie dog rifles. You do plan on shooting game larger than prairie dogs with this rifle don't you?

Most reloading manuals I have will show 2,700 fps as max vel w/ 250 grain bullets w/24" bbl.

If you are getting 2,750-2,800 and you have obvious pressure signs (sticky bolt,) guess what?

[if I have to explain this, you really shouldn't be reloading.]

One final bit of info: the bullets I was using had been pulled from a load for an older rifle and some of their tips were blunted and/or bent slightly during the pulling process. Would the bullet tip deformation in and of itself be enough to account for the inconsistencies in accuracy? I've read that tip deformation doesn't affect accuracy too much, but does it make ANY difference?

Russell420

Russell420

The max. load in the Sierra manual for their 250 gr. bullet using Rldr-19 is 71.2 grs. The 71.2 gr. load shows 2700 fps which you say you're getting. The "Accuracy Load" for that bullet is68.8 grs. of Rldr-19 and OAL is 3.34".
I think I'd back off the powder somewhat (around 69.0 grs.?) and play with seating depth. Though I seldom use 250 gr. bullets in my .338, I've found that 2700 or there about with 250 gr. bullets and 2800 fps with 225 gr. bullets is doable. Just my thoughts.
Bear in Fairbanks

You're trying to achieve benchrest accuracy using pulled bullets?

jt,

Ordinarily I wouldn't be using the pulled bullets at all in load development, but I had a few laying around. Do you have any firsthand experience that pulled bullets are less accurate than others? If so, I'll use new ones from here on out. Assuming that the base of the bullet is undamaged, I've never read that nose deformation affected accuracy, but I had no personal experience one way or the other and figured it was worth a try (or better than throwing them away).

Russell420

THE PULLED BULLETS MAY BE GOOD FOR ROUGH SIGHTING IN OR PLINKING. GET A SUPPLY OF THE BULLETS YOU WANT TO SHOOT AND START YOUR LOAD DEVELOPMENT. SOUNDS LIKE YOUR LOADS ARE A LITTLE ON THE HOT SIDE. I HAVE HAD VERY GOOD SERVICE WITH VARIOUS 225 GR. BULLETS WITH MY 338.

Russell, you seem to be getting pretty good 338 groups w/ your load BUT want more. Are YOU doing the work to get more?
Benchrest rifle? Tuned trigger? 24-36 power scope?
BR case prep? turned necks, uniformed primer pockets, cleaned up flash holes, case & loaded round concentricity checked, digital powder scale, special rest, wind flags etc...etc?
If not, then back you load off some and concentrate on your loading practices and shooting form. The 338 is a wonderful big medium and a true American classic. Have fun!

Get a box of new bullets. Save the pulled bullets to use after you develop an accurate load for fun practice, not for punching holes in paper and then measuring the results and then changing your load as a result.

When you develop a load you only want to change one parameter at a time (powder charge wt, powder type, OAL, etc.). Starting with inconsistant bullets adds a confounding factor to the mix.

While I have found that "blunted" tip bullets (from being in the magazine during recoil) perform adequately, the idea of using "slightly bent" bullets spinning at ~250,000 rpms while trying to develop a sub MOA load are beyond my ability.

How were the bullets "pulled"? Kinetic hammers usually only damage the tip. The damage can be minimized by using lighter taps as the bullet nears the end of its insertion into the neck of the brass. I've gotten near perfect bullets as a result of this technique with few problems in the accuaracy department (although I wouldn't develop a load with them). You can also place a foam ear plug in the end of your hammer to cushion the impact of the bullet. Collet pullers typically leave some evidence of their squeezing the bullets on the sides (tips were unaltered), but I have not noticed much difference in accuracy. I have only done this for firing known accurate loads though.

Yes, I have fired pulled bullets. Never for load developement though. My guess is that you will find that new bullets result in much more consistant groups. At some point, you will run out of pulled bullets and will need to fire new bullets. Might as well develop a load for the long haul.

Assuming this is a hunting rifle, 3 shot groups are adequate. Most shots at game are with a cold barrel and rarely will you be able to get 3 shots off before the game is out of sight or deceased. Your current accuracy with your pulled bullets is more than adequate.

Nosler manual 6ed gives a max load of rl19 as 73.0 gr. with 250 gr partitions. But a sticky bolt is a sticky bolt. I have found IMR 4350 to be the best in my 338 with 225 Nosler AB's.

Good luck with rifle. I hope you find the magic load.

Try 5-shot groups....