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Hey guys, I'm new to reloading and have tried to figure out this problem but I cant. I have all the basic equip, and have been reading an watching videos all I can. I'm trying to reload some Hornady fire formed brass from my 308. After setting up my dies per the instructions I "neck sized" the brass. Then, I checked them with a case gauge and they were all just under the top shelf of my Lyman gauge. I then chambered the 3 cases and the bolt closed and ejected them, all though the bolt was a little tight. I then seated a bullet an rechecked the head space with the Lyman gauge just to check and they all were approximately .009" above the top shelf of the gauge? I took the round and checked the mouth of the case putting it into the respective hole from the outside of the gauge to make sure the mouth wasn't flaring out and it wasn't. I also checked a factory round and compared the mouth diameter with mine, they were exactly the same. I also chambered them and the bolt would not full close? I have already checked my headspace with a modified case and the correct compensator and seated the bullets .020" off the lands, so the bullet shouldn't be hitting the lands yet. I also don't know why the head space changed after seating a bullet??? Any clues at to what the heck is going on? Also, I played with the neck sizing die and could never get the brass to sit flush with the lowest shelf on the Lyman gauge. My shoulder on the brass started to curve convexly before it would push the shoulder back. I don't know what else to do. I'm also reloading on a rock chucker with hornady dies an the L n L conversion kit. Any help would really, really be appreciated! Thanks, Rick | ||
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full length resize | |||
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Turn your sizing die down a 1/4 turn and resize the brass then chamber. Repeat until you feel just the smallest amount of resistance. When seating the bullet make sure your die is backed off enough so you are not crimping because sometimes a crimp (if applied to hard) will make the case buckle, or expand causing chambering issues. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Next thong to check is for a bore obstruction. Any chance one of the bullets pulled out of the neck on extraction of an unfired round? TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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Thank you for the responses! Snow are you also saying I should fully resize or just neck size? I'm just wondering because these are fire formed from my gun.. I will try the size and fit size an fit technique. I did do 1/4 turns yesterday watching the neck ring slowing move down to the top of the shoulder but I wasn't checking it in the chamber each time. I'll certainly try that! | |||
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Hi Tom, I looked at the bore with a flashlight checking for obstructions and seen none. I also inserted a cleaning rod muzzle end first, then attached a wire brush at the action end and worked a few strokes at the chamber just to make sure there wasn't any fowling blocking anything. | |||
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I did a little more research on here and I believe you guys are right on. My brass was hornady match, so it's probably close to max head space brand new, and when fire formed it probably closed up most or all of the head space left. So, I'm going to full resize and maybe that will push the shoulder back and into shape. Giving me enough head space for maybe the next 2-3 reloads. I'll let you know how that works out. | |||
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A couple points. I'm assuming that this brass was not initially fired in your rifle. If my assumption is correct, I would not recommend neck sizing. For brass fired in an unknown rifle, or even a known different rifle, then Full length sizing should be used for the first loading. subsequent loading of the same brass fired in that rifle, may be neck sized and you shouldn't experience those issues. and when you say "fire formed" are you making this brass from something else? or are these just once fired rounds from your rifle? If they are just once fired cases from your rifle, it may be a case of "tolerance stacking". i.e. Minimum chamger, maximum dies, throw in a thicker brass case and they won't chamber. I had a 308 rifle with that condition. It would chamber and fire any factory round, but after sizing, (I tried 4 sets of dies, including a small base set)the only brass that I could get to chamber with a reload was Winchester. Very frustrating I know. I would recommend you try full length sizing and if you still have the issue, try some Winchester brass, or go to Sinclair and get yourself a neck turning tool. and if I may ask, why are you neck sizing vs full length sizing? Target gun? Trying to squeeze in more powder? personally, I have found that it offers very little if any noticable improvement in accuracy. (other will argue) The thing I spend the most time on is getting my brass consistent. That is I full length size everything, clean primer pockets and then tumble. Then deburr the flash holes, then trim. I use a Little Crow trimmer which indexes on the shoulder and I have found to be quite accurate. And I weigh every powder charge. I don't care how well it meters through my measure, it gets weighed. Hopefully you will be able to gleen enough from my post and from everyone else that helps. Good luck and keep us posted! NRA Benefactor. Life is tough... It's even tougher when you're stupid... John Wayne | |||
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Make sure you don't full length resize more than what is needed or you will over work the brass. Resize just enough so you barely have resistance when closing the bolt. Then what you load will fit YOUR rifle. It might not fit your buddies, but who cares. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Yes, do what Snow said; lesson learned; never start out learning how to load with a trick of neck sizing with a full length die. You are asking for problems. And you got them. | |||
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I've full length sized everything (yes indeed, especially new brass) for years and have never experienced "overworked brass". I do discard when the primers seat loosely or the brass needs it's third (3rd) trimming; which takes quite a few reloadings. Am I missing something? NRA Patron Member | |||
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No, you aren't missing anything unless you have a max length chamber and min length dies, which it sounds like you don't. Keep doing what works. | |||
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Once all brass is FLR and fire formed, trim and neck size with a LEE Collet Die. | |||
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I would suspect this from your description. You are probably over crimping when seating. Back off the seat die a turn and then set you COL by turning down the seater stem. IME it only takes a little extra crimping to buckle the shoulder out slightly and you will get reloads that don't chamber. Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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+1, that's probably the most common cause of rounds not chambering after the bullets are seated. New reloaders set the seating die like a sizing die. If the seating die is set too deep, the mouth of the case will hit the crimping step in the die and push the neck down. This will bulge the case right at the shoulder and prevent it from chambering. Like others have said, turn the seating die body back out one full turn and set the Cartridge overall length with the seating stem. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Thanks for the reply Frank. The brass is hornady match ammo that I bought and fired in my rifle one time, so its fire formed to my chamber. That's why I was neck sizing only. I did as snow suggested last night and turned the full length die down in 1/4 turn increments and then chambered the brass each time until I got the cases to go in. It took almost a full length resize for them to go but, I guess it is what it is. | |||
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To all that have replied, thank you for your imput its much appreciated! I'd bought a (FLD) full length set of dies, and a neck size die prior to beginning. I had fired hornady match ammo and was looking only to resize the neck since it was then fire formed to my specific chamber. I did make sure in the beginning to read the die instructions. I backed the die body out a full turn after raising the ram to the top to insure I wasn't crimping. Last night I used a fld an 1/4 turned it each time and checked the brass by chambering each time after as Snow had suggested. It worked like a charm! I finished 60 cartridges last night and all of chambered with just an ever so slight snugness on the bolt before camming over. I read all of your posts and want to say thank you for the help!!! | |||
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The shape of your chamber can have a lot to do with it. Yes if your chamber was perfectly centered and round then you get a nice even fired case. If the chamber is a touch oversize or a slight oval then while the case if formed to your chamber it isn't perfectly round. Assume your chamber has a slight oval fire the case. When you try and rechamber if the oval lines up great. If it is at 90 deg. Or often less you have an issue. I'm not talking about a terrible chamber. Just a slight variation with already tight spec brass can give you issues. Neck sizing only is great IF your brass, chamber will allow it. For me it isn't the way to go on most rifles. You will find many if not the majority of the experienced reloaders do a partial FL. Just like you did they adjust the die for the brass and that rifle to just allow a nice fit. Multiple rifles you get some that reset for each rifle. Others set the die up for the tightest chamber. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Paul, That makes perfect sense to me, thanks! I think beginning reloaders like myself probably tend to think we're dealing with a perfect circumference chamber because its been machined. Your observations are good points to give thought to. Thanks | |||
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Without reading the other responses I will just say make sure your die is not crimping at all. I don't crimp any of my 308 loads. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by RMiller: Without reading the other responses I will just say make sure your die is not crimping at all. I don't crimp any of my 308 loads.[/Q Thanks, yea I backed my die out a full 1 turn to make sure I wasn't as the die instructions suggested. I'm not interested in crimping mine either at this point. My desire for my bolt gun is loading for accuracy and based on what I've read, crimping impedes that somewhat. | |||
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Before you go much farther, NGARick, you need to purchase some decent measuring tools...A set of Hornady headspace and bullet OAL length gauges, a 4" and a 6" dial caliper, a set of Redding Competition shell holders and a set of Redding bushing dies for each caliber you will be loading for. These items will allow you to produce reloads that are only sized the minimum amount...to adjust the COAL to a specific bullet at a specific length for a specific chamber... and to adjust your sizing die to only set the shoulder back in 0.002" increments and minimally size the body...you also have to understand and learn HOW to use these tools...what "headspace" really means and increase your learning curve substantially. The problem with the net is information overload and WAY too much personal bias...neither is bad per se, but all the hoo-haw gets in the way of a newbie actually figuring out the simplest and easiest way to get where you want to get. I've been at this game 60 odd years and every time I go to a forum I learn something new...some things I try, find they work better than what I've been doing and incorporate that activity into my normal reloading practice and some things are just so out of whack I can't believe some one is doing them...and some egos are so large as to totally blow away what they think they are doing/helping...I'm right and your wrong, basically. I also suggest to do your homework, online, at the range, rifle club and library... "fire forming" as you were using it was used wrongly...the case IS actually fire formed every time you fire it...BUT "fire forming" is usually reserved to the "re-forming" sense as in "re-forming/fire forming" a wildcat. No flame or diss intended. Homework in the sense of picking a subject you want to understand and searching forums and the 'net for examples. There's TONS and THOUSANDS of words written about "sizing" alone...HOW to set up a press correctly...How far from touching the lands for each caliber...etc. I've run MANY tests on resizing alone ...neck vs partial vs full vs full with a bushing die vs neck with a bushing die. I also ran the tests the other way...with chambers/dies so mis-matched I only got 2-3 firings before things got sticky. I have a 444 Marin case sitting on my desk along side a 45-70 case, BOTH were fired 40 times each in a Marlin switch barrel levergun I built with loads in the 46-48 KPSI pressure range with both jacketed and cast bullets, 20 each, with NO signs of incipient head separation, either outside or inside the cases. I've run similar test in the past with 223, 308, 30-06, 7mm RM, 300 WM and 375 H&H with resulting shot numbers in the 20-50 range depending on the case size and pressure. Those test showed me just how biased the "wordsmiths" are and just how wrong the older generation of writer were in many cases. With todays availability of chrono's, CNC machines, MUCH better barrels, optics, stocks, brass, powder and bullets, it doesn't' take too much work to produce very accurate cartridges...but it DOES take attention to detain and not letting the tail wag the dog. You need to get nit picky with some things and blow of others and learning just which, very individual to each rifle, take work and only part of that comes from the net. MOST of it is just trying a combo and keeping good notes, spending time on the range not getting pissed when things are not happening and MOST IMPORTANTLY, asking "WHAT THE HELL AND WHY". This is the hardest thing for people to do...mostly we just get an attitude and blame everything except ourselves, then go kick the dog...me also, sometimes.  Once set up correctly a sizing die will only resize the base/body 0.001 to 0.002", the neck 0.002 to 0.003" for a snug bullet hold and set the shoulder back 0.001 - 0.002"... brass "springs" a bit depending on many "things" so no matter how you set up your sizer, it ISN'T going to give you exact numbers...if it did it would mean your brass is basically "dead" and needs to be annealed. Learning to reload is just like learning to shoot...it takes hard work, keeping to the basics, good equipment, patience and lots of trigger time. Luck | |||
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Out of all the tools you listed I would guess at least 95% of all reloaders (myself included) do not own any except for the calipers and we get along just fine when reloading for hunting rifles. No need to overthink things. I respect people who wish to turn reloading into an art form but for me I just want ammo that is reliable and is capable of being more accurate than either me or my rifle.  My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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It doesn't need art work or overthinking to make very accurate ammo, Snowwolfe...just a little bit of effort, most of which can be done while watching vids or in winter when the snow is deep. I've been using headspace and bullet length gauges for almost as long as I've been reloading and mostly made out of scrap barrels and other machining junk...I was taught these bits of lore by long dead gunsmith/competitive shooting mentors...If I had any commercial business sense I would have patented those Stoney, now Hornady bits and pieces long ago, but timing is everything, and who knew these bits would become de rigueur someday. I think a newbie needs to get a good start in reloading...but it depends on just what "a good start" means to each individual. Going negative on suggestions just serves to confuse beginners...One guy says this and another pisses on it...who am I to believe? I benchrest prep all my brass/bullets in the winter...neck turn, uniform the primer pockets, weight, ogive and length sort bullets and cases so I know I have uniform bullets and brass to start load development or hunting in the spring. I can take a factory rifle and factory ammo that shoots 1 to 1 1/2" groups or most often larger, out of the box and have it shooting half that with just a little ammo work and system tuning...and most of the Ruger and Savage rifles I've bought in the past ten years just need a little bit of ammo tuning. An accurate rifle is the only interesting rifle around...the rest, well.... If you don't want to spend a little time to make/build an accurate "cheap" rifle that's YOUR choice, Snowy...you've been at this game a while and are locked into YOUR world...lots of folks think that way...but give the newbie's the benefit of making THEIR choice's before "raining on their parade". These tools are cheap, will last a life time, you can make ammo that FITS your rifle chamber and give your brass 2-3 times the life expectancy of "Normal, just make do" ammo" I really doubt your "95%" thingy...you must not do any competitive shooting or look for much more than "minute of deer" accuracy...almost EVERY competitive, long range, or varminter I know gets into accuracy big time and uses these tools or something similar and even many more on a regular basis or they just keep missing or not winning. Your choice Luck | |||
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My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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There in "lies"/lay's the jist of most arguments/discussions on what "accuracy" is...and what level is required of each individuals needs. I wouldn't even bother with reloading if I just required "hunting" accuracy...1 - 2" groups...I could hunt for the next 500 years, using store bought factory ammo, for to amount of money I've spent on reloading equipment, components and "stuff" I've acquired over the past 60 years...LITERALLY. I measure/weigh EVERYTHING...because I've found there is variations in ALL components. The idea is to make ALL COMPONENTS(including the rifle/scope system)AS UNIOFORM AS POSSIBLE. I use Lapua, RWS and NORMA brass for all my very accurate rifles...BUT...I STILL weight sort and check the neck thickness...ALL of those brass makers produce very uniform brass but a few "wrong" cases get through per box. The only way to make a believer out of YOU is for YOU to measure 100 cases and a box of bullets and see the spread...ANY BRAND, ANY CALIBER. The same for bullets...OAL's are notorious for being off by up to 0.020" with hollow points, match or otherwise, and lead tips get deformed...DON'T trust a caliper to measure with, use a bullet comparator to measure ogives...and DON'T TRUST a few ogives...measure the entire box...I've found up to 3 different ogive measurements in a single box of bullets and MOST BOXES contain a few "OUTLIERS". Almost all my rifles/ammo gets the same treatment...each is a system that gets tuned to a certain level of accuracy...small calibers are basically small bugholers...medium get a bit larger dispersion and large cals I'm happy with basically 1-1/2 caliber dispersion but always try for 1 cal spread. Lead vs jacketed has a bone of contention, but I've found a few brands of cast lead that are more uniform in OD, OAL and weight than some brands of jacketed bullets, and I shoot them exclusively in my straight walled cased rifles. It only takes one short afternoon/evening watching football/baseball/soccer to measure a box of bullets and 100 pieces of brass if I don't have to turn necks, but only a few minutes to turn 100 cases with a drill motor and one of the hand neck turners and I have 6 different types of neck turners...2 Foresters, Wilson, Lyman, Sinclair, and Hornady...several types of trimmers and several type of case measuring devices using dial indicators, all acquired over that time frame. You only have to do the case prep once, from then on you just have to measure your bullets. I don't shoot my super accurate rifles all that much...only for shots beyond 500 yds. The difference between a rifle capable of hitting sage rats out to 500 yds and ones capable of going out to 1000 plus is mostly all in the attention to detail in the ammo prep and attention to chambering, die fitment, stock and optics when building the rifle. I have several leverguns and one switch barrel Marlin with 356 Win, 444 M and 458 American barrels...two guns with scopes the rest open sights. I still work the ammo so I know I can thread a bullet through a tiny opening if I want to...but I mostly leave those types of shots because I don't want to wound and possibly lose an animal through an ego trip. I started reloading in 1957 with a Win 94 30-30 I bought with summer work haying, a box of Speer 100 gr plinkers, a can of 3031(only powder available at the sporting goods store where I bought the 94 from), Lyman 310 "nutcracker" tool, CCI primers and a 3 lb coffee can of fired brass I cadged from a gunsmith for brooming his shop for a week...my dad covered what I was short after stacking up all those goodies on the store counter. I think I used a Speer reloading manual, the load wasn't very accurate, but it WAS FAST. Missing more than one rabbit, a couple of coyotes and just scaring the ground squirrels at 50 yds right from the gitgo began my quest for accuracy and questioning everything and everyone...I HATE MISSING. With todays relatively low costs, MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF TOOLS AND TOYS, much higher level of uniformity and quality control compared to even 20 years ago, there is no reason NOT to have a very accurate rifle and to spend a little time developing very accurate ammo to go along with it. Everything I learned the hard way, through sweat equity and questioning/testing and MY MONEY SPENT, can pretty much be found on the net...FOR FREE...but it still takes work to dig through the BOOLSHEET, to separate the wheat from the chaff and to get by those that would erect walls in front of you. Again...the old adage and excuse for NOT doing...MY CHOICE. Luck and LUCK OH...headspace...lots of definitions, much arguments, hair pulling, whizzing on boots and other places...and is simple for the average reloader. It is just the difference in a bottlenecked case between a fired case length to an arbitrary point on the case shoulder and the same case after it has been sized, measured to the same place using the same gauge and subtracting the larger number from the smaller number...The Hornady headspace gauge will do that very well...forget about rimmed cases...it don't matter with those things. You get both a shoulder to base number and a body OD number. Keeping those numbers as small as possible also reduces the amount of trimming...when you squeeze brass in a sizer there is only one place that displaced brass will go and that is up and out, hence the case gets LONGER and requires trimming to keep below the max case LOA. The difference is the "headspace" for all intents and purposes, but requires a different interpretation for a gunsmith that is chambering a barrel...and you want to adjust your sizer die to reduce that amount to a minimum amount around 0.002" either by using the Redding competition shell holders or grinding the die base to achieve this number...I do both, depending...and I polish out my sizer's to achieve the a 0.001" "squeeze on the brass. I have 3-4 sizer's for several of my 223,308,'06 cased calibers and every one of them size the case bodies to a different amount, and it varies by brand and case. Having more than one sizer is great when you do a lot of wildcatting. | |||
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another thing to watch out for is when using a full length sizing die is stretching the shoulder foreword when the expander button is pulled out of the neck. lubing the inside of the case necks will pretty much eliminate this. if this is the problem even when you push the shoulder back to the point of optimum headspace the shoulder is pulled foreword by the expander button causing a very tight fit in the chamber. 308 cases are probably less prone to this than some others because of their stifness.i have found that the bullet and head space comparators help a great deal when having to trouble shoot.i also like to use a tool to check cartridge case and bullet run out. | |||
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I'm a big fan of the stoney point head space guage. Makes setting up your FL or bump die so much easier. Mac | |||
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I like to try and get away without using an expander button as much as possible. But when you do need to use them I have had good luck removing them, chucking them in a drill and spinning them with some flitz in a piece of steel wool. Usually this slicks them up enough to not need to lube the necks. Mac | |||
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Some people reload so they can shoot; some people shoot so they can reload. I'm a shooter myself and own very few of the thingies that are posted as "must have". My "rock and a rusty nail" method of reloading is a monument to the KISS principle. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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I have experienced this situation when FL resizing. When resizing brass, I bring the rifle down to my loading bench, and I continue to chamber the cartridge while adjusting the die about 1/16th of a turn. As soon as the bolt closes without resistance, I stop. If resizing a box of 20,I simply resize them all at this setting, and then check them in the chamber after I finish to be sure non are chambering with resistance. If I find one that resists, I give the die another 16th of a turn, and resize them again. I have noticed that, as I am adjusting the sizing die, the case chambers smoothly, until I get very close to the junction of the neck and shoulder. It is usually at this time, that I start to notice resistance when closing the bolt. I noticed that there is a very slight "bulge" between where the neck sizing stops and where the shoulder starts. As I adjust the die lower, eventually the chambering resistance will stop, and that is where the neck and shoulder fit best in my chamber. The only time I every had this problem with neck sizing dies (Lee Collet Die) is when I didn't have the die set up correctly, and it started to push the neck into the shoulder. I had the collet adjustment too tight, so the ram was still pushing the case up, while the collet had the neck pinched to the mandrel. Correcting it was easy enough, but it did mess with me till I figured it out. | |||
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Ahhh, Yezzz...and it you wanted to really "kiss it" you would use rocks over spears, spears over bow-arrow, and bow-arrow over black powder and black powder over smokeless because each step up violates the KISS principle. Most newbie reloading questions seem to deteriorate into "Tool use vs Non-tool use" and many just telling how they reload without answering the question. The less tool use seems to be a badge of honor somehow. If that is how you want to reload them more power to you. I ran some test way back using a Rem 788 in 308, 135 gr bullets and the old Lee "hammer" die set...about as simple a procedure/tool as you can get(I still have that set and still use it). After 3 firings I couldn't close the bolt...the case SHOULDER had stretched too far...the case OAL was trimmed each firing. The problem was the rear locking lugs would move back each firing but the "hammer" sizer wouldn't push the shoulder back far enough each time and the shoulder to base just kept growing. I ran the cases into a RCBS FL die and the problem was solved...BUT...because of the case stretching I only got about 6-7 firings before the case head started showing the "dreaded bright ring". I also was trimming anywhere from 5 to 10 thou each firing...that basically means 30-70 thou worth of brass came from somewhere and then got chopped off. I was able to produce much less than 1" groups, usually hovering in the .5" range, as long as I did the "bench prep" thing, with that cases and bullets, but if I just picked bullets/cases at random the groups went about 1-1/4 to 1-3/4. MOST reloaders never address the problem of the amount of working the neck gets each time it goes through the fire/resize cycle...hardly ever measuring the AMOUNT OF BRASS DISPLACEMENT at each step in the cycle. That is the main reason I stress using BUSHING type dies, many die makers have at least one style and turn the necks just enough to clean up the difference in wall thickness by about 80%. After a couple of firings, more or less, the neck will be very close to uniform all the way around. This keeps going back to the "horse to water" thing...some people just won't drink whether they are dying of thirst or so full they are about to burst..."the truth is out there"... some just chose not to look or see it... Hey, that's OK too. Anyway I'm done...if you're really interested in the finer points goto 6mm BR - http://www.6mmbr.com/, SAUBIER - http://www.saubier.com/forum.html or one of the many long range or accuracy forums. | |||
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Did I cause the above rant and door slam? I didn't mean to... sorry about that... cheez... I feel awful.  | |||
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FWIW, my rock and a rusty nail methods took me to two state championships. And too, if you're talking about a box gun, there is so much that needs to be done long before you can use the "match prep" ammo to advantage. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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https://www.facebook.com/photo...1295298&l=4200a1471c I shouldn't be able to do this? with an old 03A3, at 100 yds, with open sites... using the methods I describe? I guess I screwed up! | |||
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Interesting statement with a lot of truth to it, never heard it before. Well said.  My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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You have been led to overcomplication.. For a new reloader, just full length resize and seat your bullets to match a factory load. do this by putting a factory .308 up in the seating die and turn the stem down to touch the factory loaded bullet.Don't worry as most of the time they shoot as well as the complicated stuff! To properly seat a bullet to an individual rifle it can be done very accurately by sizing the case shoulder down a "tad" at a time until the case chambers with ease in "your" particular rifle Best way to be sure the bullet will allow chambering besides using a factory seat depth above is to stick a bullet snugly in the chamber (note bullet only not a loaded round). then run a wood dowel from the muzzle to touch the bullet tip. Then mark the dowel at the muzzle, then take the bullet out and run the same dowel to the closed bolt face and again mark the dowel at the muzzle...measure the distance between the two marks and you have your overall cartridge length, then seat that bullet a few thousands deeper in the case just to give the bullet a headstart and you won't stick a bullet in the throat of the rifle by allowing this bit of space. If you change bullets repeat the operation as all bullets differ in shape and require a different seating depth... These two operations will keep you going and over the years you can go technical and use all the sucker junk on the market if you must. Keep in mind that the only difference in men and boys is the cost of mens toys. Always keep your cases trimmed and toss the gadget measure you have and get yourself a caliper, even a cheap caliper is better than a molded measure. I always back my seating die of a turn or two btw, so it won't crimp..The only caliber I crimp are double rifles and tubular magazine rifles like the Win. and Marlin lever guns Find someone local that is an old time reloader and get his help, it beats the hell out of learning out of a book. After you get the basics then get some books to study and by then you will know what your reading. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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