Is neck turning really all that important for pretty good accuracy (PGA), or could want to get away with turning down their expander ball a couple of thousands? Personally, I have just been FL resizing and calling it good. My groups are around 1.5" from a custom hunting rifle. Would I see a good return on time and investment if I spent more attention on my necks?

If you are asking whether neck turning will get you from 1.5" -> 0.5" groups, then that is highly unlikely. Neck turning is one of those things one does to gain, parhaps, the last .1" of group size (I'm making the number up, but you get the drift).

Is it worth turning for you?? Depends. It depends on how much your case necks vary in thickness. If they vary a whole bunch, you can either sort to use those cases with little variation, or you can clean up (turn) your necks, just to get them consistent. It would be comparatively easy to check, whether shooting brass sorted for neck thickness variance makes a difference in your gun. If it does, there is a chance turned necks might also improve accuracy for you...

It also depends on what the neck diameter of your chamber is. Being a hunting chamber (even a custom one) you probably have a fair amount of difference between chamber and loaded round neck diameter. This means the brass gets worked a fair bit, and that limits how long brass life you will get (among other factors), and turning is not going to help any.

All in all, I personally think there are other ways you can attempt to improve your handloads before you start turning. Neck wall consistency sorting, case and bullet runout are standard ways of getting "anal" about your handloads. Either is both easier and more "natural" ways of starting on a handload improvement program compared to turning.

Another method would be to acquire dies, which will allow you control neck tension better than polishing your expander. In fact, getting rid of the expander all together might be a good first step to improve any runout your sizing operation might produce.

Turning should probably be way down your list. Speak to us again in 2 years and countless of dollars for gadgets later...

- mike

Actually neck turning will reduce your groups. An even neck wall results in a straighter case after sizing, which reduces runout, which reduces group size.

A custom hunting rifle should do much better than 1.5 MOA nowadays.

I found it wasn't worth my time. Unless you are trying to squeeze the last bit out of a bench rifle that has a tight throat.

I would not waste my time.

I did it with my 300RUM. The brass was just so crummy. I don't do it anymore. I would rather sort thru for runout. It does help your runout. But just too time consuming.

In my experience it has not been worth the trouble and time. That said, if your hunting calls for a need for long distance accuracy, pronghorn and Coues deer come to mind, let's say 400 yards plus, the extra bit of accuracy obtained might be worth it. An amigo of mine who does shoot those distances, and very well I might add, does neck turn.

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My groups are around 1.5" from a custom hunting rifle.

FlyingAce

Tell us a little more about that custom hunting rifle and the loads that you are building for it. To a component level.

For testing loads I turn all my necks, brass lately is poor, and don't full lenght resize just neck size. after finding a good load, I take new brass and neck turn a check primer pockets, and length, & load them to hunt with. I never use full resized brass to hunt with.

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Originally posted by FlyingAce:
Is neck turning really all that important for pretty good accuracy (PGA),..

Hey Jim, Unless you have a rifle specifically chambered with a "Tight Neck" there is rarely any benefit from Turning Necks.

And it can result in your Dies not Resizing the Necks down enough to get a good grip on the Bullet. Then you need special Bushing Dies to compensate for the Thin Casenecks.

If you want the best possible accuracy(BPA) in a regular production rifle(different from PGA), you do get some benefit by fully Prepping the Cases and Weight Sorting. Then shift from Full Length Resizing(FLR) to Partial-Full Length Resizing(P-FLR) and you will be in a position to get the BPA.

A lot of folks use Neck Sizing and do well with it. Ive just found that P-FLRing works the best for me.

To turn or not to turn, that is the question!

Ho well, hum diddle-de-di......IMNSHO, there are but two reasons to do it...one is a min spec. chamber with fitted neck, the second is neck tension...consistancy or lack thereof... whether you do it is largely a matter of the cards you are dealt. It is my considered opinion that gross variations of neck wall thickness will interfere with proper and consistant neck tension, and that such issues can be resolved with judicious* use of neck turner apparatus and gilhickies... I've seen some guns respond favorably to the treatment, some do not. The issue becomes less significant as caliber increases in my experience and I don't fiddle with a lot of micro-bore rifles.

I generally like to see .001" variation or less in neck wall thickness, note that Remington has on occasion provided as much as .003". Maybe that hurts, maybe not. Shoot it and find out. Run out IS significant IMO, as is OAL. Your mileage may vary.


* I will take the opportunity to emphasize the word "judicious". Barring prep for match quality ammo for a fitted neck, if your case necks are uniformly and completely turned it is probable that you have turned them too much. JMO

I would echo what mho-mike said; cost/time/benefit ratio of outside neck turning is poor when trying to lessen group size in a hunting rifle. There are more productive ways. And some folks spend years searching for that elusive sub-MOA load. It's part of the hobby; every gun is unique.

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* I will take the opportunity to emphasize the word "judicious". Barring prep for match quality ammo for a fitted neck, if your case necks are uniformly and completely turned it is probable that you have turned them too much. JMO

There are definite benefits to "judicious" neck turning and Dan has described it perfectly. It's a subject that needs to be studied in depth before being put to use. The equipment is relatively expensive and is the fastest way I know of to reduce brass to scrap unless turning is applied "judiciously" Jim

You have to remember that turning down the expander and neck turning does two different things. Like stated, neck turning uniforms the thickness of the brass in the neck, and turning down teh expander will help with neck tension, but not necessarily uniform the neck. I just cut enough brass off of the neck to shave the high side, and hardly remove anything from the low side. Just enough to even it out. Along with neck thickness uniformity, brass runout and cartridge runout are equally important. Anything you can do as far as uniformity with charge weight, brass length, OAL, brass weight, etc will help the rifle shoot more accurate. I do not weigh my brass, just make sure all of my brass is the same length exactly, necks turned, and hand measure my loads. I also do not measure my OAL from teh point of the bullet, rather from the ogive. Depending on the quality of your bullets, the length might be diffent from bullet to bullet. Consistent distance to the lands is important too.

In producing some of my wild cats I have found that it is absolutly necessary to turn down necks. Two of the three reasons have been mentioned. Another reason ,and perhaps not the last, is trueing up neck wall thickness that varies diametricly.One side may have a wall thickness of .015" and the opposed side .011". This is not unusual in making short wildcats and probably is present in some degree on most cases.

On my 7X41 the difference in group size change based on neck turning was perhaps a change of 2" at 100 yds. maybe more.

In most standard chamberings for hunting rifles neck turning is of little value. roger