Does anyone have any loading data on this cartridge? I just received a Kurz Mauser in this caliber and would like to give it a workout.

Two loads from Cartridges of the World
125 sp. bullet. IMR 4198 30 gr. 2370 fps. Energy 1560ft.lbs

150gr. sp. bullet. IMR 4064 41gr. 2350 fps. Energy 1840 ft.lbs.

NOTE BENE bullet dia. is .316" roger

I didn't think to look in COW. That provides a start at least. AmmoGuide has evidently never heard of the cartridge, even after being given a complete description, with H2O capacity and case dimensions.

I have a form and trim die, so forming cases from .308 Winchester brass, which I have in profusion, should not be a problem.

Xausa, glad to see that kurz went to a good home.
I would have given my left nut for it.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
Does anyone have any loading data on this cartridge? I just received a Kurz Mauser in this caliber and would like to give it a workout.

Hi

Quickload list the cartridge

Hope that helps

Just remember that the cartridges for the Kurz Mausers operated at low pressures. like around 40K psi. Don't try to hot rod them.
You won't need a form die; too easy to make them in a standard sizing die.

I loaded for a 8x51 Kurz Mauser once using 308W cases. They just ran up into the FL die and were perfect. From memory the 8mm Norma projectiles that the rifle owner supplied were correct at .318" diameter. I don't have my notes anymore on what load I work up for the little Mauser but seem to remember I did use IMR4895 and only loaded to get up to POI of the iron sights, it was most likely that I began with some mild starter loads published for the 308W.

Hello Bill

I hope you got a good one (the 8x51). I have one (possibly the rifle Eagle27 reloaded for) but as its quite original I haven't shot it much.

I used LC 308 cases but they do come out a bit long and need a severe trim (I have a bit of original factory ammo and brass to compare). I think you'll have to slug the bore, I got several conflicting measurements for bore diameter (ranging from .316 up, mine is about .320, I've shot the Hornady FTX bullet (.321) and that was OK, I have some .318 Norma 160 gn soft points (and can get another box if you would like some sent) and they are fine in my rifle too.

I've settled on Trailboss in mine as I only use it for shooting cattlebeasts for meat i.e. quite close. I have Quickload data for the 8x51 and will email it to you.

Dpcd what is your reference for the lower pressure for the Kurz, I have 3 Kurz rifles (one rebuilt in 6.5x47 and one original in 250-3000) besides the 8x51 and have never seen any data to suggest that the 250-3000 should be loaded down for a Kurz. These rifles are proofed and I think you'll find that they are given the same level of proof as the 270, 30-06, 8x57, 7x64, and many other "high intensity" cartidges chambered by Mauser in its sporting rifles.

Cheers
Foster

Hello Foster,

Actually, I have a Kurz in .250-3000, and it never occurred to me to limit the loads I use in it to low pressure ones.

Dpcd, as far as "hot-rodding" any Mauser load, I am well aware of the pressure limits specified by DEVA and in most cases adhere to them, except in the case of a cartridge like the 7X57, which I regard as underloaded.

One of my recent acquisitions is an 8X60S marked "Magnum". I knew that certain 8X60's were so marked, indicating that they had been subjected to a higher proof pressure, but I have not been able to locate a source for one of those loads. I will just keep looking, I suppose. My DEVA manual lists only a few very anemic loads for the 8X60RS, and none for the 8X60S, which is odd, considering that it is still quite a popular caliber in France and Belgium.

Cheers,

Bill

QL lists it at 3400bar~49,3kpsi.

Temt man; no you should not load the Kurz actions up to the levels of the 270 and the like at 60K psi. Original Kurz cartridges were all under 50 K psi; reference; My Oberndorf Sporting rifles book which lists all the pressures of the ammo originally produced for the Kurz Mausers. The 250-3000 Savage is loaded under 50K psi and so is the 8x51 and the 6.5mm rounds used in the Kurz. That is my recommendation based on original data; you can shoot what you like in your Kurzs.

The Kurz has been in my possession since Sunday, and I have been able to do some shooting with it. The materials I have on hand include large quantities of Federal and Winchester .308 brass and a good supply of Privi Partizan 175 grain .323" bullets.

Using a form and trim die which came with the rifle, I was able to form about 50 cases. I used an expender die to open the case necks to .35 caliber before necking them down to 8mm. The resulting case necks were in some cases too wide to hold a bullet securely. Actually, they passed over the expander ball of the die without touching it. This despite the fact that the neck thickness was in general more than .013".

I used two Lee bullet sizind dies to reduce the diameter of the .323 bullets to .317". By lubricating the bullets and allowing them to sit overnight, so that the lubricant had hardened, the bullets were not only easier to handle, the resizing process met with virtually no resistance.

Laking any information on loads for the cartridge using 175 grain bullets, I decided to use loads for the 7.65X53 Mauser as a starting point, since the case capacity is very similar ti the 8X51 and loading data is available for 175 grain bullets.

I decided to use a relatively slow burning powder to begin the test, so I chose IMR 4064
and loaded five cartridges, using the lightest loading recommended by Sierra and working up in five steps to the heaviest load. None of the loads showed any pressure signs, so I repeated the test using IMR 3031, with the same results.
I believe I will stick with the last load I tried, at least until an accuracy test proves it to be acceptable.

One question which I intend to pursue is whether neck turning the cases to a uniform neck thickness of .012" would improve accuracy and allow me use .320" bullets and thus eliminate one of the sizing operations. The Federal cases measure .013-.014" and the Winchester cases are slightly thinner, but will not hold a bullet, even after removing the expander plug from the sizing die.

If your Fed cases have .014 neck wall thickness, and won't hold a .320 bullet, then reducing the neck wall to .012, won't either.
The only solution is to use a die with a smaller neck.
I would cut off an 8x57 die and use that, because I would not want to spend the $ on a new custom die.

Sounds like your having fun to me. roger

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
If your Fed cases have .014 neck wall thickness, and won't hold a .320 bullet, then reducing the neck wall to .012, won't either.

The neck walls are not uniform .014". .014" is the maximum thickness. The bullets I am using now are .317". Using .320" bullets would remove an intermediate step.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

Sounds like your having fun to me.

That is an accurate observation. I have been having fun altering cases for various purposes since I got my first Belding & Mull loader in 1958.