Been working on a new load in my Improved whelen. I want to use 250gr bullet. I have been working with Reloader 15. Right now Ive up to 64 grs of power and thinking about going to 65grs in half gr loading. Does this sound about normal or Im I pushing it too much. Primers are flat and the shell exacts
easy. Bill B.

Every gun is a rule unto itself, but that sounds way too hot for a 35 whelen ackley, most folks consider 60 gr max w/ RL15 and 250's. The best powder I've found is VV N 550 w/ 250's.

I'm curious what velocities you've been recording, perhaps your scale is a bit out of wack. From a 22-24" tube, 60 gr RL15 should do ~2650 fps.

I used to run 55 gr behind a speer 250 with a normal Whelen. Considering 5-7% above normal whelen loads which ackley calls for, 64 or 65 would seem way too hot.

G. Sitton's article on the ackley improved version shows 58.5 gr of 4064 with a velocity of 2562 from a 20" barrel. Which would prob be 2650 with a 24" tube.

Are you using a chronograph. If not get one and check that load.

I load 67gr of 4064 in my 358 norma and get only 2780 fps which is near max

Thanks for the infol. Ive read lot of articles and some guys are running 62grs in
a standard Whelen of reloader15. I agree loads are pretty hot. Ive been using 4320 for
the last 8yrs or so,thought I could get a little more. What would be a max load in a standard Whelen with reloader15?

Bigbore,

I don't know where you've seen folks using 62 gr of RL15 w/ 250's in a std whelen. I know several folks that load the std, and the consensus is 58.0 to 58.5 is max in a std whelen with 250 gr bullets. Check out Alliants web site, they have data for RL15 in the std whelen chamber.

In my whelen ackley I worked up to 60 gr of RL15 w/ 250 hornadies and was getting 2680 fps, and I considered the load hot. I swapped to swift a-frames with the same charge, got 2750 fps and primers falling out of the case. Unfortunately my gun only groups 250's when pushed 2600-2700 fps, so I had to switch to VV N550 to safely achieve those velocities.

The only reference I've seen to 62 gr loads and RL15 is with 225 gr bullets in the ackley chamber. Unless you are using a chrongraph, you are really working in dark. Your rifle may be chambered and throated such that you can use those charges safely in your gun. That said, I would not load a 35 whelen ackley to push 250's faster then 2600-2650 fps using RL15, as I don't see any way to do it without running high pressures. If you want max speed, use N550, you'll pick up another 100 fps over RL15, or better yet, run the same speed at less pressure.

The whelen was never intended to be a speed deamon gun, the only reason I went with the ackley chamber was to produce std whelen velocities at less pressure, but unfortunately my gun refuses to group at those speeds, and I had to step it up. Those velocities also require the use of an a-frame or X bullet, the partition is the "softest" bullet I would use at those speeds.

Paul what would be a good starting point for
N550 and what would be max load with that power and 250gr bullets. Thanks Bill B.

Bill,

I'll forward this by saying there is no published data using Vihta Vouri N550 in the 35 whelen, or ackley variant. The way I determined the loads for my rifle, is a comparison of N550 and RL15, and some experiences with other rounds that lead me to believe that N550 can be loaded to ~8% higher loads then RL15. So, I figured a 64 gr load would be max with 250's, and started at 58 gr, and worked up in 1 gr increments. In my gun, best accuracy was at 62 gr, so thats where I stopped.

I would highly recomend having someone run quickload on the round and powder combo, before just dumping powder and letting loose. I through caution to the wind, compared as best I could, and worked up from there, I was fortunate nothing bad happened, but I have been bit before with that approach, so, be forewarned!

Paul, thanks for the input. I did look around for some infol on 550 and didnot find any. What I wanted was a little more zip from the Whelen. Been using 49grs. of IMR 4320. I guess as a handloader one is always tring something different. I am going to try to find some n550 and work up some loads.
What did you get for speed from 62grs n550 and what barrel length do you have?

Have a good day and thanks, Bill B.

The way to getting a "little more zip" from a 35-caliber is to use a bigger case, not to stress a smaller case.

Requests like this...for max loads...always make me nervous...every rifle, every powder lot, any change in primers, any change in bullet manufacturer, any change in seating depth can have hugh impacts on pressure.

If you want to read something informative on this, read the A-Square Reloading Manual.

I have a standard Whelen with a 25" barrel and it will take 59.5G Re15 and a 250g Hornady for 2641 fps and also 60g Norma 203b for 2658 fps. These loads are warm but safe in my rifle at 95 degrees.

Sambubba

Mr DB Bill
Im fully aware of the bigger case more zip,been there done that. I want to get as much as possible from my Whelen. I also understand any change in primer, case what not can change everything.
I was looking more for a starting point to start loading and what the average "MAX" other Whelen users was getting.

Thanks I guess, Bill B

I'd like to reiterate what DB Bill said. I don't know that I sufficiently stressed it in my previous post but, what I was trying to say was, if you follow unpublished data and go off on your own and want to run hot, you run a good chance of blowing your darn fool head off. I had no intention of loading my gun hot when I started working up loads, I just wanted an accurate hunting load, and unfortunately my gun patters when loads are decreased.

You will get no real world increase in killing power or trajectory by loading hot, a 35 whelen is a 35 whelen, whether loaded to original specs of 250 gr @ 2400 fps, or an ackley or other improved that gets 2650 fps.

Anyow, to big bores question, the gun is a VZ-24 mauser action with a 24" long Addams and Bennet barrel, w/ an ackley improved chamber. Loads were worked up w/ rem -06 brass tha was fireformed. I use Federal 210 primers, and bullets are seated .020" off the lands. I had to open up the magazene and action to fit the loaded rounds in the magazene, as the bullets are loaded a fair ways out from their canalure. Bullets are crimped with a lee factory crimp die, I use a 356/358 die and a tubular spacer for the longer case.

With the load mentioned, a hornady 250 gr spitzer leaves at 2600 fps, a 250 gr swift a-frame leaves at 2700 fps. As this clearly demonstrates, bullet construction has a huge effect on pressure, the identicle charge is 100 fps faster w/ the a-frame due to the partition in the bullet. If you use an X bullet, all bets are off.

BigBore358...Nothing personal but so many people believe everything they read on these Boards and that can get them in trouble hence my admonition about getting "max" loads from someone else.

At the risk of further irritating you and perhaps others, I'll say it again.......anyone who wants to "play" in the area of max loads where very small differences in components and loading procedures can have catastrophic effects is operating on a very thin edge and giving or taking advice on this from the web can be dangerous.

Good point DB. I once loaded a .264 WIN MAG the OAL was 3.27 and in the max load range. I seated the bullet at 3.25 not thinking it would make much of a differance. When I touched it off it completely locked the bolt and ended up setting the head space back. Thats all it took for me to always error on the side of caution

Bigbore--- I load my standard chamber Whelen with 60 gr RL15 under either a Speer or Hornaday 250 gr . This gets me 2630 fps and frankly , I have seen few Whelen shooters that are using this much ; my rifle has a very long throat . The 62 gr charge you mention would be way over the top in a standard chamber . If you are already using 64 gr in your improved chamber , I surely wouldn't go any higher and you are likely already way too hot . Have you chronoed the load ? You have to be getting 2700 fps+ already . How much more can you expect from a non magnum .35 caliber ?

Red Rhino...you were the victim of a pressure increase that most loaders don't think about. Most think that if you decrease the OAL (basically move the bullet back away from the rifling) you will get a decrease in pressure. In many instances this may be true but sometimes it isn't...what probably happened to you was by moving the bullet back into the case a bit you effectively decreased the volumn of your "combustion chamber" ie the inside of the case and this resulted in the increased pressure observed. This is one of the reasons it is usually better to start developing loads with a certain OAL and then move the bullet (increasing the OAL) in small increments toward the rifling looking for the sweet spot. Max loads are something I try to avoid as like I said, it can be a dangerous area where very small changes in technique and/or procedures can get you into trouble.