I've been forming my .358 brass with one simple pass through my RCBS FL sizing dies. I had some once-fired Winchester and Remington .308 cases which reformed nicely to .358, and when the barreled action finally arrived, these re-formed and loaded cases functioned perfectly.

Then I got "smart" and decided that new brass would probably be safer with the heavier loads I'm trying to work up to, so I bought a box of Hornady Match .308 brass to re-form. Trouble is, when I lube it and pass it through the sizer, it comes out with a false shoulder that the Winchester and Remington brass does not have when I re-form it. Thinking that this shoulder would go away when I fired it, I proceeded to load a few rounds of the Hornady with Speer 220-grain bullets. However, when I checked the first five rounds for function, I couldn't get the bolt to turn down with a mallet! I then loaded a few dummy rounds with the few new Winchester cases I have, re-formed to .358, with the same bullets -- no problem with function.

When I weigh the Hornady brass, it is considerably heavier than the Winchester brass so I assume it is thicker. Being a custom cut chamber, I can only assume it is very tight and persnickity about what it eats.

Oh well, I guess I'll have to wait until Winchester (or Remington, or Federal) decides to make a .308 brass run and buy some to re-form. (I've totally given up on them ever running .358 brass again). I did find some Privi Partizan .308 brass for sale, but don't know if it will work when re-formed to .358.

Anyone ever tried to re-form Privi Brass?

I have a bag of 358 win brass I will sell you.

You can see what is happening to the brass with the Hornady case headspace gadget that attached to a dial/digital caliper.

If the Hornady brass does not chamber just lube the neck and body a little and size.
Retract the sized case from the FL die enough to turn it about 120 degrees and size it again, retract and size the 3rd time. Then check the 3X sized case for chambering. It should work everytime.

quote:

If the Hornady brass does not chamber just lube the neck and body a little and size.
Retract the sized case from the FL die enough to turn it about 120 degrees and size it again, retract and size the 3rd time. Then check the 3X sized case for chambering. It should work everytime.

That did not work at all. Apparently the Hornady match brass is just too thick for my custom-cut chamber. I just re-formed and loaded my last ten pieces of new Winchester .308, and they feed and chamber slicker that owl poo.

I have yet to pop a cap with this rifle, but I feel like I need to be very careful when approaching max loads with such a tight chamber.

Have you tried to put a .338 button on that die, and doing your forming in two separate steps? Why do you want to use 308 brass?

Phil

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Originally posted by Greyghost:
Have you tried to put a .338 button on that die, and doing your forming in two separate steps? Why do you want to use 308 brass?

Phil

Well, first, if you have a source for .358 brass, please let me know. There is NONE on the market anywhere. The only other caliber brass I would consider using to form .358 Winchester brass is .338 Federal (even though I don't know if anyone has done this). I assume .338 Federal is as hard to get as any other calibers right now.

No, I have not tried to use an intermediate button, mainly because I don't have one. I do load for 8mm Mauser, but my dies are not compatible with the RCBS stem. I guess I could try to run the stem out on my Redding 8mm dies and run a case up just far enough to engage the button, but not far enough to resize the case.

Here is your problem, and the solution; If they don't fit, it means that the Hor brass is springing back a bit due to it being thicker/tougher. In that situation, you can turn a few thousandths off the bottom of your FL die to allow the brass to go in deeper. I have done several dies that way to accommodate tough brass. This is a simple fix.

Sounds to me like trying to go from 308 to 358 in one shot is pushing the shoulder down into the case expanding case dia at the shoulder... and creating a false shoulder.

Still say go with a 338 button first and trying it in two separate steps!

But, I've never seen the need to resize 308 brass to 358...

Phil

I just tried stepping it up to .323 before going on to the .358 -- same result.

I agree about the harder, thicker, match-grade brass rebounding. That is exactly what it looks like is happening with that false shoulder appearing at the base of the neck. Instead of altering my dies, however, I'll just use softer brass to reform (when I can get it). In the mean time, SAJ is sending me a bag of properly head-stamped .358 brass, which should last me a while, assuming I don't ruin it, myself, or my new barrel shooting loads that are too hot.

Try annealing the neck and shoulder area on one of your Hornady 308 Win cases before running into your 358 Win FL die and see if softer brass will make a difference.

Have you tried the COW method?

quote:

Originally posted by BCSteve:
Have you tried the COW method?

Okay, I'll bite.

I have no idea what the "cow" method is but I will tell you what the smith that made my gun said.

To make a 358 from a 308 load it up as a 308 and fire it in your 358. It works every time and you get a nice fire formed brass ready to neck size, load and shoot.

That will work, but tell us this; Will a Hornady 308 brass go into the chamber before it is resized? If not, it means that you have a short chamber.

Yes, the Hornady brass chambers fine, even after its re-formed, as long as I don't cram a bullet in the neck. Once it's loaded with a bullet, no matter how deep it's loaded in the case, the bolt will not turn down. However, if I load a piece of Winchester brass with the same bullet, sized in the same die, at the same setting, It chambers as slick as can be. (Before anyone says it, I can assure everyone interested that this is NOT a problem of the bullet encroaching on the rifling. I have plenty of free bore and am loading well off the rifling.)

I gotta believe that the heavier shoulder of the Hornady Match brass is not sizing all the way down -- just like you suggested earlier (hence the "false" shoulder that shows up at the base of the neck), and is only an issue when there is a bullet loaded to keep it from being compressed in the chamber.

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:

quote:

Originally posted by BCSteve:
Have you tried the COW method?

Okay, I'll bite.

Cream of wheat. Fire forming instead of mechanically expanding the neck with the die. Google it, its a common way of forming brass.

Kind of like what Paul S suggested but with cream of wheat as an inert projectile.

Anyway, I'm going to have to let it rest for a few days, I took the gun to a local smith today to clean up the stock inletting, bed it in, install a Decelerator pad and install sling swivel studs.

Funny, this gun cost me $99, new, in 1973. Just the new barrel, installed, blued and head spaced, cost $500. Throw in the bedding work, and recoil pad for about another $300, and I could have bought eight factory M-600s for the price of this one. Fortunately, I can't put a price on the amount of memories accrued afield carrying this rifle over the last 40 years. Many GA whitetails chewed their last brier leaf at the report of it's 100-grain bullet leaving the muzzle. Two of my three sons killed their first deer with it, as well did my best friend's son, whom I took hunting for the first time. It would still be serving duty as a "borrower" had it not lost it's accuracy a few years back. Besides, I really don't think a .243 with a 18-inch barrel is the ideal deer killing instrument, even at the short ranges encountered in our Georgia woods. (I don't like to talk about deer hit and lost, but there was more than one -- and no blood trail!)

quote:

Originally posted by BCSteve:

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:

quote:

Originally posted by BCSteve:
Have you tried the COW method?

Okay, I'll bite.

Cream of wheat. Fire forming instead of mechanically expanding the neck with the die. Google it, its a common way of forming brass.

Kind of like what Paul S suggested but with cream of wheat as an inert projectile.

Oh! Forgive me for being dense. I just never heard of it being called "cow" method.

Yes, I've fire-formed a lot of brass with Bullseye and cotton wads (never with cream of wheat, though I know a lot of folks do it that way). Made a lot of .35 Whelen from .30-06 brass when I couldn't find any factory formed brass.

I HATE FIRE-FORMING! Messy and time consuming, but if that's the only way to get brass, that's what I'll do. Right now, though, there are other alternatives.

The only other option is neck turning. I have found the same thing, that Hornady Match brass is thicker in 308. I have to reduce my normal Winchester or Remington 308 loads by half a grain.

It sounds to me like the brass in the neck is too thick. When you load a bullet in the brass, the overall diameter of the case, at the neck, is larger than the neck part of your chamber. I have a 300 Win Mag long range benchrest rifle with a "tight" neck. I have the same issue if I use unmodified brass. My rifle's chamber was designed this way on purpose, for benchrest accuracy and not recommended for a hunting rifle, and I have to neck turn all my brass to thin the neck area down to about 0.011 so it will chamber. Most of the factory brass I encounter has a neck thickness of about .012 to .014.

Try measuring the diameter of the neck with a bullet loaded in your Winchester brass and in your Hornady brass. I suspect you will find the Hornady brass necks a bit larger. Next try measuring the thickness of the brass in the necks, you may need a tubing micrometer, but you should be able to get decent reading with a good dial caliper. Again, I suspect you will find the Hornady brass thicker. If this is the case, your only option remaining, if you want to use the Hornady brass, is to outside neck turn the Hornady brass so the necks are the same thickness as the Winchester brass.

Most of the companies that make case trimmers, sell attachments for outside neck turning. I do not recommend inside neck reaming.

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:
Yes, the Hornady brass chambers fine, even after its re-formed, as long as I don't cram a bullet in the neck. Once it's loaded with a bullet, no matter how deep it's loaded in the case, the bolt will not turn down. However, if I load a piece of Winchester brass with the same bullet, sized in the same die, at the same setting, It chambers as slick as can be. (Before anyone says it, I can assure everyone interested that this is NOT a problem of the bullet encroaching on the rifling. I have plenty of free bore and am loading well off the rifling.)

I gotta believe that the heavier shoulder of the Hornady Match brass is not sizing all the way down -- just like you suggested earlier (hence the "false" shoulder that shows up at the base of the neck), and is only an issue when there is a bullet loaded to keep it from being compressed in the chamber.

quote:

Originally posted by GAHUNTER:
Yes, the Hornady brass chambers fine, even after its re-formed, as long as I don't cram a bullet in the neck. Once it's loaded with a bullet, no matter how deep it's loaded in the case, the bolt will not turn down. However, if I load a piece of Winchester brass with the same bullet, sized in the same die, at the same setting, It chambers as slick as can be. (Before anyone says it, I can assure everyone interested that this is NOT a problem of the bullet encroaching on the rifling. I have plenty of free bore and am loading well off the rifling.)

I gotta believe that the heavier shoulder of the Hornady Match brass is not sizing all the way down -- just like you suggested earlier (hence the "false" shoulder that shows up at the base of the neck), and is only an issue when there is a bullet loaded to keep it from being compressed in the chamber.

Sounds like the necks should be turned and you'll be fine then.

Two things come to mind if I read all this right.

1. Outside neck reaming will make it work I suspect.

2. If your die is adjusted down on the shell holder as per the direction with a pop at the full stroke and you still cannot get a full length sizing, don't cut the bottom of the die, cut the top of the shell holder, usually a thousands is good, then perhaps another. If you take off too much the $8.00 shell holder is a lot cheaper to replace than a full length die.