I just recieved a rifle from Australia, a Enfield Mk IV with LE250/03 stamped on the barrel. It is smaller than the .303, both case and bullet. Is anyone familiar with this cal.? "Cartridges of the World" shows a 25/303, with the case being formed from a 30-40 British, which I never heard of either. Can anyone shed any light on this? Thanks.

Chamber cast time, Bubba.

I strongly expect that it uses reformed .303 Brit. Sensible wildcatters (an oxymoron if there ever was one) use the brass that is readily available to the them. It's also a bunch easier to use brass that was designed to fit the action used.

One nice thing is that it is a rimmed case. Makes it a lot easier to fireform once you have an idea what you are working with. If it turns out to be a .25-303, our Aussie friends ought to be able to give you lots of data. I would expect ballistics in the .257 Roberts, .257 AI class.

There are no bad .25 wildcats and I envy you an interesting project.

Bubba,

I don't know what a 250/03 is but the 303/25 was the standard and popular one out here up until the late 1960s.

It would be worth getting a chamber cast as there were many variations at the time.

From memory my father worked up to 36 grains of 4740 with the 87 grain bullet. 4740 was like 3031 and was the powder used to load Canadian 303 ammo.

Factory loaded 303/25s did about 2650 with the 87 grain bullet.

Calibers like the 303/25, 303/270 and a shortened version of the 303 called the 7.7 X 54 were introduced because for many years military calibers were not legal to own in Australia unless you were a range shooter.

The 303/270 was the 303 necked straight down and the original cordite load was used with the 100 grain bullet.

The problem with the SMLE is that as soon as some pressure is developed accuracy goes right off or at least that was the case with the 303/25s

The calibers are now deader than dead in Australia.

Mike

[ 12-01-2002, 06:11: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

Bubba,
The 25/303 on a No1 MkIV used to be very popular here and there are still a heap of good rifles in use although the price is very low fetching only Au$150-200 tops.
In the SMLE action the loads need to be reduced slightly to avoid spring the rear locking action and ballistics similar to the 250/3000 would be the norm. Load translation is difficult but we use 35gn AR2208 (equiv to Du Pont 4895) behind the 87gn for about 2900fps.
My own rifle is built on a British P14 action (same as M17)and because of the front locking lugs, I can run up to 39gn of AR2208 for 3260fps.
Cases can be formed with one pass through a F/L die however they do need to be trimmed from the standard 303(2.222) to an overall length of 2.185".
As with many wildcats there were many variations depending in the smith. By all means start with a chamber cast to determine the taper and O/A length.
I have one rifle stamped "25 Westener" built on a Springfield 03 which is a 25/303 improved with min body taper and 30 deg shoulder. This is very close to the 25/303 Epps described in Ackley's Book of Wildcats.

Good on ya Mike375 we musta been typing at the same bloody time mate!!

Bad Ass,

My father was from QLD and had a 303 and M92 in 32/20. When he moved to NSW he had to join the NRA range to keep it. When I was about 14 we were on a holiday and my father bought Australian Outdoors and learnt there were other things beside the 303.

As it turned out the late Don Black only lived a couple of miles away and his 303 was converted to 303/25 and his 32/20 to 218 Improved Bee. At the same time he got from Don Black a 218 Improved Bee for me on a Martini. That was around 1963.

A couple of years later my fathers 303/25 was gone and Don Black made him a 270 Winchester on the M17 and I left school and bought a Sako 270 and we were on our way

Mike

ackley had data on this his reloader's handbook...
jeffe

Thanks to all for the good info. There was supposed to have been a sizing die with the rifle, but it didn't make the trip accross the big water. I will make a casting to double check the 303/25, and hopefully the shipper will send me another die. I kinda have a soft spot for the .25's myself, having a .257 AI. I would normally check the bore diameter at the muzzle end, but this rifle has a flash supresser and that makes it a little difficult. And the price was right for it, I cannot pass up a deal.$120US, and it had a scope mount and a good leather sling.I have Ackley's book, but did not think to check it for load data. If I had of started from scratch, 4895 would have have been my choice.

I too have a soft spot for the 25's and have a Win 92 in 25/20 that I take to the range to introduce the kids to centerfire rifles. A 250/3000 on a Venezlian Mauser, 2x303/25's a SMLE and P14 and a 1949 FN Mauser in 257 Roberts AI. The AI is one of my favourite hunting rifles having used it to take red deer and pigs. The only problem is that it has a 1 in 11" twist which will not stabilise the 117gn RN.

Mike, that 218 improved by Jack Black; I think I have a similar one (218 Mashburn Bee) on a small Martini. It has a set of figure 8 scope rings sweated to the barrel which I believe was one of JB's methods. My P14 has 'WM' stamped on the barrel which I think was Bill Marden of Sydney.
Also have a 17/222 Rimmed which has 'WM' similarly stamped.

Bad Ass

Those figure eight mounts are a Don Black 218 Bee.

Not long before I got my Sako 270, Don Black rechambered my 218 Imp Bee to 219 Zipper Improved.

I think that would be a Bill Marden rifle.

Mike

Bad Ass, I had forgot about the 25-20. I have a 92 in that cal., but have never shot it.You folks down under must have really liked the 92's in 25-20, 32-20, and 32-40. I bought several in these caliber's from there. And the half mag and button mag must be common.None of this is very common in my part of the country. I saw one of the uglyest Winchester 92's in my life that came from Australia. It had the original 32-20 barrel replaced with a Martini cadet barrel with the military sight still on it.The reciever had been "jeweled" with a grinding rock on a Dremel Tool. It took several days for me to get over seeing this.